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Antique Steel Wheel Tractors - Old Iron Lugs and Cleats Photos and information about antique steel wheeled farm tractors. This is where to find the heaviest of Old Iron tractors.

Antique Steel Wheel Tractors - Old Iron Lugs and Cleats

Russian Rumelys


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  #1  
Old 09-30-2006, 09:31:35 PM
JLee JLee is offline
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Default Russian Rumelys

There has been a lot of talk about American iron going overseas.What about stuff that was exported originally?Rumely exported a lot of stuff to Russia.With the collapse of the USSR, could some of these machines still be there?Maybe a few "E"s laying in Siberia?JLee
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  #2  
Old 09-30-2006, 11:02:57 PM
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Tanner Remillard Tanner Remillard is offline
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Default Re: Russian Rumelys

It seems that alot of Holt's were exported during WW1 for war efforts, but I imagine the majority of those, if not all got scrapped for iron in the first and secont war
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Old 09-30-2006, 11:10:43 PM
Bud Tierney Bud Tierney is offline
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Default Re: Russian Rumelys

Now, that's a thought...but think of what the shipping would cost!! Seriously, there were all kind of stories about those tractors, mainly frightening: that the Russkies (at least the ones assigned to the communal farms) had no experience with machinery, or regular maintenance, or (because the tractors, like everything else, were State property, and the peasants had no interest in seeing the State succeed at farming) just beat them to pieces. But it's hard to tell how much was true and how much was propaganda, even before WWII...
Another point, though, were all the stories about the Russian pilots who took the aircraft we got in: Warm up the engines, run the checklist before takoff? even just check the mags?? NYET!! Pour on the coal and take off!!!
Not that they didn't have then, and still do, their share of extremely bright people; I just doubt they were running tractors!
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Old 10-01-2006, 06:08:45 AM
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Sawyer-Massey 11-22 Sawyer-Massey 11-22 is offline
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Default Re: Russian Rumelys

I would think if anything were shipped into the former U.S.S.R. that perhaps it would have gone to the Ukraine. The Ukraine in it's hey day say from 1910 to the late 50's early 60's was known as the bread basket of the world for the their large production of wheat. Massey-Harris in the early 60's sold vast amounts of equipment into Russia for that very reason.

Robert
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Old 10-01-2006, 10:19:56 AM
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Default Re: Russian Rumelys

In the book "John Deere's company" there's a chapter about the Waterloo Boys & D's that were sold to the Soviets. It actually credits Stalin with helping keep the co. afloat during the depression. He ordered a bunch of D's for his big ag. project just as sales here were in the tank. There's even a propaganda poem about what a good worker John (the D) was for the communist struggle...
Ron in CO...
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Old 10-01-2006, 11:41:48 AM
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Default Re: Russian Rumelys

As far as I know, no Rumelys or other large tractors have survived in Russia or the former Soviet Union. (Neither have any of the Russian-built tractors from before the revolution.) No doubt this is due to the Soviets' disdain for all things western and their contempt for history, as well as the need for scrap metal during the Second World War. Amazingly, a Hungarian-built HSCS steam engine was discovered recently in a shed south of Moscow though, and is now in the UK under restoration.

Among the US tractors shipped to Russia in the early days were IHC, Hart-Parr, Flour City, Holt and Pioneer (as well as Case, Advance, Avery, and Gaar-Scott steamers). A Hart-Parr 30-60 and Pioneer apparently took part in the 1913 Kiev trials, and other US-built machines may have taken part in earlier trials at Taurida and St Petersburg.

A Russian engineer by the name of Mamin did produce his own "prairie" tractor in 1912, which he called the "Russian Tractor" (see pic below). To me, this looks to be heavily influenced by the Rumely E, especially the chassis and wheels, but apparently it featured Mamin's own design of crude-oil engine. He built around 100 of these between 1912 and 1914.
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Old 10-01-2006, 01:56:29 PM
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Default Re: Russian Rumelys

Guys - I recall hearing many moons ago (and can't vouch for the truth of this?) that the Soviets had mothballed a lot of old stuff in "strategic reserve" in the event of war, etc.. This mainly referred to steam locomotives, etc., but one supposes could have been farm tractors also? As far as E Oil Pulls, you would have to doubt that any survived WW2 as the German army was within sight of Moscow and was also desperate for raw material and may have scrapped anything they found in the Ukraine, etc.? And the Soviet war machine would have cleaned up the rest.
Met a chap 10+ years back who went over east of Moscow to set up some new combines on an old State farm of 200,000 acres!!! He said they had plenty of combines there but none of them were running or fit to repair. That's why communism didn't work - no one had any incentives do actually do anything when the State would simply pay you anyway.
G.
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Old 10-01-2006, 02:08:12 PM
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Default Re: Russian Rumelys

At least one Rumely E has been shipped to West Siberia, but as David states, it is very likely this tractor too does not exist anymore. Here a picture of a Kolumna tractor, I don't have any more info on it.
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Old 10-01-2006, 02:41:29 PM
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Default Re: Russian Rumelys

Hi Marcel,

That's actually a "Kolomenets-1", named after the Kolomensk tractor factory where it was produced from 1922 ("Kolomenets" means "from Kolomensk" in Russian). It was designed by Evgenii Dmitrievich L'vov, a well-known Russian author on tractor construction and founder of the "science" of tractor design in Russia. Work at this factory had initially focused on copying the IHC Mogul tractor, but apparently it was found to be too expensive to build the equipment to mass-produce these copies.

The Kolomenets-1 ran on crude oil and saw three different modifications between 1923 and 1929 (more than 500 of these tractors were built during this period): the engine horsepower was progressively improved, a radiator was added, and the number of gears was also increased. One of these models, the 25 hp version, was listed as weighing nearly four tons, had two forward gears and one reverse, and was capable of speeds of 2 and 3.4 mph.

Hope this is of interest.

Best wishes

David
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Old 10-02-2006, 02:50:23 AM
Inter Bloke Inter Bloke is offline
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Default Re: Russian Rumelys

From what I have read on the subject the Soviets under Stallin considered anything not in use to be scrap and there were no exceptions made for historic reasons except to glorify the military struggle over the imperialists (thats all of us western dogs). I have read that very few eastern block countrys have many of there own products left, let alone things imported from "the enemy". There is a story about the soviets after the comunist takeover plundering the Hungarian museums for scrap metal and smashing up early 20th century Grand Prix racing cars and other motoring relics pluss old steam engines and IC engines already on display as historic just for their scrap value. I have a H.S.C.S. tractor made in Kispest, near Budapest Hungary in the 30s, but have been told that the only place you can see any number of them in a row is out here because most of the ones imported here survived, but in eastern Europe once they could no longer be used in a productive way they went to the smelter.
I think any survivors over there would be very small in number, but we can always hope.

Graham
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Old 10-02-2006, 02:57:00 AM
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Default Re: Russian Rumelys

Hi Graham,

I just returned from Hungary last week, and I saw quite a few tractors, engines and steam over there in museums. It was all in excellent condition and much of it still runs. I don't think there is so much in private hands now though.

Best wishes

David
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Old 10-02-2006, 05:43:26 AM
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Default Re: Russian Rumelys

Thats good to hear David.
What type of machinery is still there, I was led to believe that most (but not all) had gone during the 50s and 60s.
Is there any H.S.C.S. built machines in museums over there?

Graham
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Old 10-02-2006, 06:39:55 AM
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Default Re: Russian Rumelys

Hi Graham,

As far as HSCS is concerned, I saw three of the MEZ models with the front-mounted radiator dating from around 1926, as well as a dozen or so of the later models (K series, "Le Robuste" crawler, G-35 etc.) I also saw two MAVAG tractors from around 1930, three little RABAs from the same period and a lot of Czech, Russian, US and British stuff too.

There were around half a dozen steam engines, including a Clayton & Shuttleworth portable from 1852(!!!), and a couple of HSCS traction engines. Hundreds of stationary gas engines from Hungarian and other manufacturers and plenty of implements as well.

All the best

David
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Old 10-02-2006, 07:33:19 AM
JLee JLee is offline
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Default Re: Russian Rumelys

Getting OT, but after reading these posts and going to Mr Parfitts great site, I didn't realize the existence of large Euro tractors in the early part of the 20th century. Is the interest in them growing?Is there any good books on the various makes and models?
A very fascinating subject that I assumed didn't exist.Thank you all.
JLee
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Old 10-02-2006, 07:58:18 AM
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Default Re: Russian Rumelys

Hi JLee,

Unfortunately very few of the large early European tractors have survived, unlike in N. America. There are not many books available on these big tractors either, but the UK magazine "Old Tractor" occasionally features articles on some of them - have a look at their website at http://www.oldtractor.co.uk

UK companies that built such big tractors include Saunderson, Marshall, Hornsby, Ransomes, Clayton, Foster. There are a dozen or so Marshall Colonial tractors still in existence, a handful of big Saundersons and two Hornsby-Akroyds, but all the others have disappeared without a trace. Hundreds of these tractors were shipped worldwide, but most of the survivors were found in Australia, Canada or NZ. Germany also built a lot of big tractors in the early days, and the first tractors from HSCS in Hungary and Munktells in Sweden were also heavy machines. (France and Italy also made a few big tractors.) For me, one of the most interesting types of machine is the motor plough, which was very popular in central Europe in the first two decades of the 20th century. Some of these were pretty hefty too.

Drop me an email if you would like more references on particular manufacturers or models.

All the best

David

P.S. Couldn't resist including this photo. Any guesses as to where this tractor was built (and photographed)?


Last edited by David Parfitt; 10-02-2006 at 08:34:38 AM.
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Old 10-02-2006, 04:04:01 PM
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Default Re: Russian Rumelys

Thanks David for the info on the Kolomenets, very interesting. I haven't got a clue what the make of the tractor in your picture might be, but what an impressive machine! The 1852 Clayton-Shuttleworth was delivered with threshing machine and has earned her keep until 1900, states the brass plate. This machine must have laid the base for hungarian HSCS brand.

Graham: there seem to be quite a few Iron Horses left in Australia, they are very nice tractors and hard to find on this side of the pond. You will find many nice pictures on www.hscs-deutschland.de They were called 'le Robuste' for the export to western Europe. I have found an all original G-35 on steel wheels in Hungary.

Jlee: I don't want to go too much off topic, but did you know they even experimented with electrical driven tractors? I have some picturs that I will post if you would be interested. There has even been built a big belgian tractor, I still have to scan this picture.

Best regards
Marcel
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Old 10-02-2006, 04:13:42 PM
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Default Re: Russian Rumelys

Hi Marcel,

Have you visited the Budapest museum with the Clayton & Shuttleworth portable? Would be interested to know if they still run it - couldn't find anyone to ask when I was there. Apparently they also have the little HSCS prototype that you have probably seen photos of, but it wasn't on display.

I would be very interested to see a picture of the early Belgian tractor that you mentioned, and any other tractors made in Belgium. Also, the electric tractors would be of great interest - I have seen a few photos of them being used in Germany (Siemens maybe?), but I also have pictures of electric tractors in Russia if you are interested.

By the way, do you know anything about the Chassart trials in Belgium in 1913?

All the best

David

Last edited by David Parfitt; 10-02-2006 at 04:21:37 PM.
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Old 10-02-2006, 11:17:56 PM
JLee JLee is offline
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Default Re: Russian Rumelys

Yes,please post the photos of the old European tractors and the electric ones.Did they run off of large wires or huge batteries (like a sub)?I will admit to knowing absolutely nothing about the different makers but I am catching on.
That very large tractor.Could it have been used at a mine or quarry?It looks almost like a conveyor or boom over the far wheel.Thanks, JLee
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Old 10-03-2006, 02:24:29 PM
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Default Re: Russian Rumelys

David, I have heard about the Chassart trials, but haven't got more info. However, the very first tractor imported in Belgium was apparently an Ivel! I still have to scan the pictures of the Belgian made tractor, will do this next week. I don't think the CS portable in Budapest is in running condition, but by the looks of it it could still be possible. This must be one of the oldest surviving portables!

Jlee: attached the pictures of the electric tractors. Siemens in Germany and Forssblad in Sweden. I have never seen one or heard about one in existence though. Also a picture of an electric driven balance plough. The Siemens looks like they modified a steam ploughing engine.

Best regards
Marcel
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Old 10-20-2006, 09:41:19 PM
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Default Re: Russian Rumelys

I travel to Ukraine every 3-4 months, my wife comes from Odessa, Ukraine. I would think that all the old iron was melted down long ago in Ukraine. In the cities as you walk down the sidewalks you have to be careful not to step in an open manhole, I asked my wife why they didn't have covers on them. She told me that they had been stolen years earlier, for people to get a little money for the scrap cast. The city got tired of replacing them and left them as is. One man that was visiting at our condo in Odessa looked at my web page of old stationary engines, he said he has seen one of these engines in his city a few years before, it was for back-up water supply, incase there electric pump failed. I would like to see this engine to solve my curiousity of what it might be. The people in Ukraine think I am a little crazy when they hear I collect this stuff, without having a real use for it, other then to listen to it run.
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