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Generator Controllers - Gencon II Pro


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  #41  
Old 07-30-2017, 11:13:53 AM
Gunny Gunny is offline
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Default Re: Generator Controllers - Gencon II Pro

If you were to use those 35:5 CT's, change that 800 number to 35 and it should read correctly.

In my experience in setting them up, usually they will send out the most experienced/knowledgeable tech with a sheet of recommended settings from the design engineer. Have seen more than one incident where if it had been set up as per the recommended settings, there would have been a mass exodus of magic smoke. Builder of those controls usually offer a training course. Best of them was at Ft Collins with Woodward on the EGCP controllers.
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  #42  
Old 07-30-2017, 01:56:50 PM
dmeed dmeed is offline
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Default Re: Generator Controllers - Gencon II Pro

Reminds me of my brother trying to get a tree harvester working that had been designed and build to specs from some engineering company. He was in the woods of New Brunswick in the middle of winter. The harvester head swung on a big bearing and the oil seals on the bearing kept failing. FInally he looked at the seal spec and it was something like 30-200 F. Wonder why it was failing at -20F in the winter...

That whole job was similar - working out the bugs from the drawing room to the actual running conditions.

David M
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  #43  
Old 07-30-2017, 02:06:39 PM
len k len k is online now
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Default Re: Generator Controllers - Gencon II Pro

To protect your current transformer from open secondary (smoke) not a bad idea to maybe put diodes across secondary, AT the transformer. Diode pointing in each direction ( in parelle) , so as long as secondary voltage doesn't exceed diode forward drop (~ .7V) diodes don't conduct much (knee of the I-V curve) . Might have to use 2 diodes in series to get forward drop of each leg up to 1.4 Vto limit current thru diode under normal conditions. That diode voltage seems reasonable if full output of XFMR is only 0.5V into the burden resistor

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyC View Post
Side question: As I am learning, it is obvious that not anyone can or should be setting up these controllers in a professional / commercial / industrial environment. I assume it would be the job of an electrical engineer. Is that correct???? I assume that is one reason why the Gencon II Pro controller requires a special password to access the setup parameters. If a console operator (or whatever their job name is called) had access to the setup parameters and had little knowledge of what he/she is doing, it could lead to a potential disaster.
I'm guessing beyond that password is access to techical programing that can be something as simple as changing preprogrammed current transformer valves that user can pick from , to adding complete sub-routine software to add new features. I would guess they might even be another password layer beyond that to give access to changing the root software that is their $$$$$ intellectual property (software) that makes this "box" a gen controler.

So yes going beyond that password likely gives you the ability to make the gen controller not work right. But if you know what your doing it likely gives you the power to program it do anything you want it to. I'm guessing it's just a PLC.

Last edited by len k; 07-30-2017 at 08:10:51 PM.
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  #44  
Old 07-31-2017, 10:53:55 PM
JohnnyC JohnnyC is offline
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Default Re: Generator Controllers - Gencon II Pro

Update:

This evening I received my RS-485 to USB converter that I ordered online. Once installed and wired it should allow the controller to communicate with my PC, but most likely I will need software for the controller too which I will deal with later, but first setting up the converter interface...

I wanted to set up the converter with my Windows 10 64-bit PC. No go!. There are NO available drivers on the CD from the converter company and nothing compatible from Windows Updates. Needless to say this is a product from CHINA. I really hate most anything made in China. I cannot write here on this forum or any other place how much I despise anything made in China. The first picture below is proof where this piece of junk was made. Documentation has Chinese addresses. The highest version of Windows that they support is Windows 8. When I plug in the converter on my Windows 10 PC it does not know it is there when viewing Device Manager. The second picture below shows what the converter looks like.

Luckily I have an old Windows 7 64-bit PC and I was able to successfully install the drivers and device. The 3rd picture below shows that the device is installed as seen in the right hand red circle, if you can read the small print. The problem now is I don't want to use my Windows 7 PC. I ultimately want to install the converter on my Windows 10 laptop so once the controller is hooked up to my JB in the garage, I can simply plug in my laptop next to the JB and control it from the laptop, but that won't be possible since there are no supported drivers. It will be hard to move around my office Windows 7 desktop PC.

Since it is getting late, I did not hook up the converter to the controller which sits on my desk in a bench testing configuration. Maybe tomorrow time permitting.

I will respond back tomorrow on the CT responses from the weekend since I am pressed for time this evening..

JohnnyC
New Jersey (I hate Chinese products, period!)
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  #45  
Old 07-31-2017, 11:09:55 PM
Power Power is offline
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Default Re: Generator Controllers - Gencon II Pro

Johnny, there is a similar problem with adapters made to program amateur radios with a PC. The Chinese ones are 1/4 the price, but frequently are not recognized by the PC, do not work, hang up or give people trouble.

Depending on ad, you may be able to return adapter as NAD at seller's expense.

Those adapters are common, spend a bit more and get a good one.
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  #46  
Old 07-31-2017, 11:23:39 PM
JohnnyC JohnnyC is offline
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Default Re: Generator Controllers - Gencon II Pro

Quote:
Originally Posted by Power View Post
Johnny, there is a similar problem with adapters made to program amateur radios with a PC. The Chinese ones are 1/4 the price, but frequently are not recognized by the PC, do not work, hang up or give people trouble.

Depending on ad, you may be able to return adapter as NAD at seller's expense.

Those adapters are common, spend a bit more and get a good one.
I was trying to remember what the online ad stated as for supported opsystems. I don't recall any mention of specific operating systems supported and assumed the product was up to date on the current operating systems. Windows 10 has been available for several years now. Those Chinese bastards are slick. Buyer beware..... Anyway, there are support numbers and email addresses. Their offices are in the UK and China. I know what the response will be, if any. I don't expect too much, but those bastards got my money....

Before I return the converter, I will try it using Windows 7. If I see what I like, then I will buy a better converter.

JohnnyC
New Jersey
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  #47  
Old 08-01-2017, 11:14:02 PM
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EricWood EricWood is offline
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Default Re: Generator Controllers - Gencon II Pro

Hi Johnny,

Just a couple thoughts from the computer perspective point of view. Personal opinion here, but shell out the money for a decent converter. You can count on crap results from a crap product just about every time. (I can tell you that you do NOT want to lose Comms while transferring data.)

http://www.usconverters.com/usb-rs485-converter-xs885

The one in the example above is multi-edition Windows compatible. Just an example..not endorsing the one above; simply an example of something likely a little more reliable, albeit still probably made in China.

As for your acquired devices, I don't know what version of Windows the software interface will operate on, once you find it. My work laptop (the only Microsoft product allowed in the house) has a Windows 8 Enterprise loaded on it, and I also have virtual machine on there to run Windows 7 and Windows XP to support some of the legacy equipment out there. A lot of equipment out there was built with the "technology of the time", and have no forward-advancing upgrades, thus VM's come in handy.

Here's a link for a Gencon II...not a download, but at least something to read. (Didn't know if you had found more info or not yet.)

https://www.yumpu.com/en/document/vi...ctronic-r-gmbh

(Apologies for posting duplicate--didn't see your link to same earlier.)

Last edited by EricWood; 08-02-2017 at 12:03:25 AM. Reason: Discovered I posted a redundant link
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  #48  
Old 08-05-2017, 10:11:10 AM
JohnnyC JohnnyC is offline
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Default Re: Generator Controllers - Gencon II Pro

Friday evening Update:

I've been very busy this past week to get my much needed therapy until last night (Friday evening).

I moved the Gencon II Pro controller from my office desk where I was doing basic testing and learning from my armchair to the garage. I gave it much thought and I want to incorporate the controller into my LT II ATS. Why? The LT II ATS has a great float charger and the ATS works 100%. Also the controller is made for 3 phase gensets and I think there may be alarms going off to shut down the genset since the controller will "think" a phase has failed. I may be able to circumvent some of the alarms or actions based on the alarms, but I'm not concerned about that yet. For now I want to test the basic measurement functionality of the controller when married to my ATS. So far it I looking good. I attached several pictures below and explanations are as follows:

First Picture: This picture shows the entire layout to give you an idea of my setup. The JB is in the background (as well as a 6.5NH, but not part of this setup), the LT II ATS, and on the table is the Gencon II Pro controller next to my JohnnyC Kilowatt box. Ignore the Corona - One should not drink and play with electric. At the moment I am measuring the utility from the load side of the ATS.

Second Picture: Although not the best picture, this shows several wire harnesses as marked going into various areas of the LT II ATS. Not seen are the wires attached at the Gencon II Pro.

Third Picture: I wired one of my current transformers at the ATS and set the current transformer ratio parameter in the Gencon II Pro controller from 800 to 35 as recommended after I posted details on the current transformers I have in my garage.

Last Picture: The moment of truth as for measurements - I am comparing the Gencon II Pro controller for voltage and current (I have a small load on one leg) to my JohnnyC kilowatt box. The readings are very close, basically splitting hairs when comparing. The cheap-azz Chinese Drok meters in my JohnnyC kilowatt box are in the ballpark when compared to a professional 1 billion dollar controller. Not pictured, I had a convention electrician's clamp style amp meter taking a reading in the ATS next to the load switch for a third opinion for accuracy on readings. They are all reading excellent in comparison. Hz and voltage between the Gencon II Pro and the JohnnyC kilowatt box are close too.

Today, time permitting, I want to wire in a second CT for the remaining leg. I want to explore the other options that the Gencon II Pro offers (there are many, many, many other options). I would like to setup oil temp monitoring and some other basic options soon.

The neat thing about the LT II ATS is the Gencon II Pro controller runs on 12 VDC and the ATS's battery float charger will keep the system charged 24x7x365 allow the controller to run full time.

JohnnyC
New Jersey
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Last edited by JohnnyC; 08-05-2017 at 10:22:39 AM.
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  #49  
Old 08-06-2017, 04:43:25 PM
Wayne 440 Wayne 440 is offline
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Default Re: Generator Controllers - Gencon II Pro

Be careful, you could end up with this-
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  #50  
Old 08-07-2017, 09:17:14 PM
JohnnyC JohnnyC is offline
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Default Re: Generator Controllers - Gencon II Pro

Monday Evening Update:

First, Wayne 440 - I had a good laugh when I clicked on the picture you attached. I am not there yet, but maybe in 5 years I will have more monitors running..

Ok, the update - I made a JohnnyC executive decision to incorporate the Gencon II Pro controller box by mounting it into my ATS. As mentioned in a previous reply, I want to use both the controller for monitoring the engine and generator, and the ATS for other functions as well as for it's float charger which will keep the JB's battery alive as well as allowing the controller to run 24x7 since it runs on 12 vdc. Also, I want to make this combination ATS/Controller mobile which means I will be fabricating a heavy duty cart.

Today, I removed the ATS's 3 small and nearly useless analog meters and rotary switch from the front cover. I cut a big hole in cover which allows me to mount the Gencon II Pro controller. I did not wire it up yet, but I will do the wiring sometime this week. Maybe I'll give the ATS box a JohnnyC paint job in the near future too.

I attached 4 pictures below showing the work done tonight. The Gencon II Pro controller that I installed was one of my spares that I decided to use for mocking up the cutout in the front cover.

That is it for tonight,,,,,

JohnnyC
New Jersey
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  #51  
Old 08-08-2017, 06:54:06 PM
Gunny Gunny is offline
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Default Re: Generator Controllers - Gencon II Pro

Good job!

Your hole cutting skills are better than mine.
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  #52  
Old 08-14-2017, 08:16:58 PM
JohnnyC JohnnyC is offline
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Default Re: Generator Controllers - Gencon II Pro

Monday Evening Update:

This evening I did some permanent wiring of the Gencon II Pro controller inside my Onan LT ATS. I am far from done before all wiring is completed, but got some of the basic wiring done and one less thing (controller) hanging off of the ATS. I used spiral wire cable wrap since that is what's used by Onan for other wire packs in my ATS (trying to be consistent). Anyway, I got lots more to learn and to do, but having fun.

JohnnyC
New Jersey
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  #53  
Old 08-14-2017, 08:43:37 PM
Wayne 440 Wayne 440 is offline
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Default Re: Generator Controllers - Gencon II Pro

Very stylish...
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Old 08-14-2017, 10:23:49 PM
len k len k is online now
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Default Re: Generator Controllers - Gencon II Pro

Looks nice.

Make a schematic of what you did , in 10 years you won't remember how you wired it. Plus eventually good for next owner
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  #55  
Old 08-14-2017, 10:30:29 PM
JohnnyC JohnnyC is offline
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Default Re: Generator Controllers - Gencon II Pro

Quote:
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Looks nice.

Make a schematic of what you did , in 10 years you won't remember how you wired it. Plus eventually good for next owner
10 years??? How about now. I can't remember what I ate for dinner and that was only 3 hours ago.....

JohnnyC
New Jersey
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  #56  
Old 08-14-2017, 10:34:47 PM
len k len k is online now
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Default Re: Generator Controllers - Gencon II Pro

I used to just take things, oh I'll remember how it went together.....
That why now I take 1-2 minutes and draw an extensive picture ...... so I don't forget 5 minutes later and take hours figuring it out. I did that enough
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Old 08-14-2017, 11:29:30 PM
Steve Dawkins Steve Dawkins is offline
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Very nice job of wire labeling with clear shrink wrap. You won't have to worry about those wire markers falling off after a few years. The spiral wrap is a nice touch too.
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