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Generator Controllers - Gencon II Pro


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  #11  
Old 07-23-2017, 07:27:51 AM
Gunny Gunny is offline
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Default Re: Generator Controllers - Gencon II Pro

I've worked with those before, been a lot of years though.

A fairly good controller with a whole lot of features and hard to set up/program. They work well once set up.

Used to control generators that are intended to run in parallel with either the grid or each other. That means they have the ability to control the geneset's governor and voltage regulator to share load. Typically in a paralleling system you have a number of devices or modules that perform functions like synchronizing, load sharing, generator protection, breaker control. This controller has most of those functions built in. Pretty sure that controller can also be remotely accessed and controlled either through the inter net or a local net.

Yes, you could use it to control one of your Onans but you'd need to disable 95% of the functions. Sort of like using a 747 to fly to the next town for a coffee. I'd say you'd also want to mount it off of the genset to protect it from vibration. You could set one of these up to monitor utility power, should it get out of where you have it set, it would start the genset, open the "mains", close the emergency side breaker and turn your lights back on. When "mains" come back to acceptable levels, it would parallel to utility, close the utility breaker, unload the genset, open the emergency breaker, cool down the engine and shut it down. That's how I set these up when I worked on them.

When working with controllers designed and built in other countries, find that they sometimes word things differently from what you and I are used to seeing. Here the utility is called utility, in England its "The Mains". Add another different language and there could be some serious differences. Careful with that and think things through.

Might have some manuals on them around here, I'll take a look later today. Doubt I'll ever do anything with them again. If I find them, I'll send them up.

Very similar in operation to Woodward EGCP3. Deep Sea makes one too. Barber Coleman, when they were in business, had one too but they weren't very good.
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  #12  
Old 07-23-2017, 08:00:04 AM
Wayne 440 Wayne 440 is offline
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Default Re: Generator Controllers - Gencon II Pro

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Originally Posted by Gunny View Post
...using a 747 to fly to the next town for a coffee...
Hmmm. I'm having completely inappropriate thoughts of having a pair of RDJC sets with those controllers, instead of one 30kW set. I know that there are many reasons not to do that, but still...
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  #13  
Old 07-23-2017, 08:53:47 AM
JohnnyC JohnnyC is offline
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Default Re: Generator Controllers - Gencon II Pro

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Originally Posted by Gunny View Post
I've worked with those before, been a lot of years though.

A fairly good controller with a whole lot of features and hard to set up/program. They work well once set up.

Used to control generators that are intended to run in parallel with either the grid or each other. That means they have the ability to control the geneset's governor and voltage regulator to share load. Typically in a paralleling system you have a number of devices or modules that perform functions like synchronizing, load sharing, generator protection, breaker control. This controller has most of those functions built in. Pretty sure that controller can also be remotely accessed and controlled either through the inter net or a local net.

Yes, you could use it to control one of your Onans but you'd need to disable 95% of the functions. Sort of like using a 747 to fly to the next town for a coffee. I'd say you'd also want to mount it off of the genset to protect it from vibration. You could set one of these up to monitor utility power, should it get out of where you have it set, it would start the genset, open the "mains", close the emergency side breaker and turn your lights back on. When "mains" come back to acceptable levels, it would parallel to utility, close the utility breaker, unload the genset, open the emergency breaker, cool down the engine and shut it down. That's how I set these up when I worked on them.

When working with controllers designed and built in other countries, find that they sometimes word things differently from what you and I are used to seeing. Here the utility is called utility, in England its "The Mains". Add another different language and there could be some serious differences. Careful with that and think things through.

Might have some manuals on them around here, I'll take a look later today. Doubt I'll ever do anything with them again. If I find them, I'll send them up.

Very similar in operation to Woodward EGCP3. Deep Sea makes one too. Barber Coleman, when they were in business, had one too but they weren't very good.
Thanks Gunny for the information on the controller. I am also learning that in Europe their monitoring and control methodology would be to let the controller do it all while in the USA a separate switch would be used for power transfer. That is what I read and that information most likely is old and has changed since the 1990's / early 2000's.

I do not plan to run more than 1 set at a time, so all functionality of paralleling would be disabled or simply not used. I am not sure if I'm able to tap into the JB's AVR using the Gencon II Pro, but I would need to see detailed schematics.

For now, my main intent is to fully exercise the monitoring and reporting of critical engine and generator performance. Additionally, I want to pump the data from the Gencon II Pro to my PC where I believe Wexler has a comprehensive software package to track, report and plot the data into graphs and whatever. I have NO information on how this is done. There is a RS232 port on the controller, but that is used for the IOB02 module which contains onboard relays. My PCs do not have RS232 ports.


If you have any more information or can dig up your manuals, I will be happy to pay for them. I have nothing to lose since I got everything for free and although exploring the possibilities of this controller and interfacing it to an Onan is out of my league, it is fun and challenging.

Thanks,

JohnnyC
New Jersey
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  #14  
Old 07-23-2017, 12:05:21 PM
Power Power is offline
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Default Re: Generator Controllers - Gencon II Pro

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Originally Posted by Gunny View Post

Yes, you could use it to control one of your Onans but you'd need to disable 95% of the functions. Sort of like using a 747 to fly to the next town for a coffee. .
I like your analogy. Those meters and controls are way beyond anything I would think of putting on a 5 or 10 KW generator.
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  #15  
Old 07-23-2017, 12:13:52 PM
pegasuspinto pegasuspinto is offline
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Default Re: Generator Controllers - Gencon II Pro

You can buy a RS-232 dongle for your computer cheap. Thats what we all have to use now, because only the most industrial laptops come with a RS-232.

I would suspect this system communicates RS-485, because it can be networked and the cable lengths allowed are pretty generous. Typically you have a RS-485 to either RS-232 or Ethernet converter somewhere and your computer accesses the system from there.

Unless this has a lot of legacy support built in I doubt it would interface with a JB regulator. Generally now they expect a digital regulator and governor. There are modules out there that convert digital out to a motor drive to turn a control.....for those who have to bridge state of the art to dinosaurs
!
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  #16  
Old 07-23-2017, 03:13:29 PM
Gunny Gunny is offline
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Default Re: Generator Controllers - Gencon II Pro

Johnny

Went through a pile on manuals and so far, no joy but still looking.

Take a look here and it'll give you a pretty good idea of what you have and what it can do.

http://www.woodward.com/egcp3.aspx

Yes, it can control your VR but don't know why you'd want to, usually only done when paralleling. Short story...... When a large generator is called upon to parallel to another source, before it will close the breaker it will match the voltage to within whatever you have it set for, usually 5% or so. Once the breaker to the other source is closed, there needs to be a connection to a set of contacts in that breaker telling it what position it's in (open or closed). Once the controller sees the breaker is closed, the voltage regulator now becomes, more or less, a VAR/Power Factor controller. It also needs at least 1 PT (Usually on phase B) also connected to the controller so it knows if its sending out power or soaking up power.
With that controller you could parallel about any size genset with any other size genset or utility as long as the voltage and frequency were the same. You could parallel your JB to the grid but you would need an electronic governor and more sophisticated voltage regulator. Oh, and some utility grade protective relays too. Those relays would probably price it right out of consideration.

Try to get in the menus and change some settings. If it asks you for a pass word, you might be out of luck. Then might consider selling them on ebay. If someone wants one of them bad enough, you very well might be able to fund your next 5 or 10 projects.
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  #17  
Old 07-23-2017, 03:55:40 PM
len k len k is offline
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Default Re: Generator Controllers - Gencon II Pro

With needing to shell out $$$$$ for access sounds like it's a proprietary system that you will never have full access to on your own. Not good if it crashes in the middle of a cold night. Manufacturer likely sees user as a cash cow to be milked.

Might be easier to get a generic PLC and design your own controls.

From what has been said it might be intended to put one on every BIG gen. And use one as the master to control the other slaves. To run them in parelle as needed to power the utility grid.
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  #18  
Old 07-23-2017, 08:36:32 PM
Gunny Gunny is offline
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Default Re: Generator Controllers - Gencon II Pro

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Originally Posted by len k View Post
With needing to shell out $$$$$ for access sounds like it's a proprietary system that you will never have full access to on your own. Not good if it crashes in the middle of a cold night. Manufacturer likely sees user as a cash cow to be milked.

Might be easier to get a generic PLC and design your own controls.

From what has been said it might be intended to put one on every BIG gen. And use one as the master to control the other slaves. To run them in parelle as needed to power the utility grid.
If password protected and you have it, not too bad to make it work, if you don't, pretty much a fancy paper weight. Those things are about as reliable as an anvil, set it up and rarely do you have an issue, its all in the set up.

Yes, easier to just get a Deep Sea or an Easy Gen but not much challenge there.

Yes, designed to control al large genset or a yard full of them. If I remember right, can use one of these to control 7 or 8 slaves.
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  #19  
Old 07-24-2017, 11:19:49 PM
JohnnyC JohnnyC is offline
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Default Re: Generator Controllers - Gencon II Pro

Update: - I've read all the responses and they all contain great information. I will comment on them tomorrow since it is late here in New Jersey.

For the past several days I've been very busy trying to crack the Gencon II Pro password to have full access to the setup menus. The password is a 4 digit numeric code (between 0000-9999 inclusive). I started at 0000 and worked my way to 0520 with no luck. I texted my nephew asking if he knew the password which I hated to do since he works long hours with a 2 hour commute. He replied in 2 minutes. The Gencon II Pro password is 5344. It worked!! I'm not sure if that is a default password for all Gencons or what. He did not ask me anything specific about the controller I was trying to crack and I got 8 of them.

It is now 11 pm and no way can I sleep now that I got full access . I can set all kinds of things like overspeed, battery undervolts, gen undervolts and overvolts, Frequency over and under, G 2xOvAmp W and S (whatever that is), G Reverse kW, Over %THD, SyncTimeout, Dwell time, Kw Surge, Test delay, Mains status, Standby On and Off, Engine Preglow (I guess that's for diesels), Engine crank, Crankfail Rest, Idle Run Time, V/OP/HZ N/BILT (what????), Set Stabil Min, Coolin Down, Stopping max, Alarm On Max, LubPump On Off, Load Break, Contactor Delay, all kinds of kVAr quotas, Cooling temp alarm, H/L Oil level Shut, Vacuum Alarm, HCoolTmpSht, Oil Pressure, Fuel Pressure L and R, etc..... There are 53 possible settings from the one menu screen called Delays that I am looking at and I don't have the foggiest clue what most of these settings are for. There are other screens for setpoints, Options, Basics, Factory, In 1....16. Within each of these menus, there are more. ..... CRAP!! I just tried accessing the FACTORY menu and it asks for a 6 digit password. I'll text my nephew this week, but seems like I now have access to everything else. Ok, lots of learning to do with little information on hand.

Update--- It is really neat to see all the professionally set parameters of the generator(s) that this thing was controlling. I may be wrong, but the controller was on a 1 megawatt generator. Well, I hope it does not mind being hooked up to an Onan 7.5kw if it is possible

JohnnyC
New Jersey

Last edited by JohnnyC; 07-24-2017 at 11:37:12 PM.
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  #20  
Old 07-25-2017, 07:58:53 AM
I like oldstuff I like oldstuff is offline
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Default Re: Generator Controllers - Gencon II Pro

Man that thing is chock full of nuts! You'll be playing with it for months.
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