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Onan Magniciter Theory FAQ


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  #21  
Old 12-17-2009, 10:40:44 PM
Jim Rankin Jim Rankin is offline
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Default Re: Magniciter Theory FAQ

here's 4 more schematics of magneciters The plain 04sx and 06sx are shown in a picture posted a while back on this thread.
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  #22  
Old 04-06-2010, 09:37:03 PM
Ted_Cool Ted_Cool is offline
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Default Re: Magniciter Theory FAQ

Thanks to Leon, I was able to literally piece this document together.

This is Onan's explanation of the Magneciter, from the J Line brochure.

Maybe no surprises by now, but it's nice to see it all laid out in one go.

Most interesting point: They claim the Magneciter is " Five times faster than brushless type generators"

"Regulation is literally instantaneous since rated voltage is restored
within two seconds after being affected by a load change."

How does that compare to a modern AVR?
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  #23  
Old 05-13-2010, 04:59:42 PM
airbatica airbatica is offline
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Default Re: Magniciter Theory FAQ

I stumbled across this little gem of an E-book while trying to find some basic info on magnetic amplifiers.

http://www.archive.org/details/MagneticAmplifiers

And a direct link to the .PDF

http://ia311013.us.archive.org/2/ite...Amplifiers.pdf
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  #24  
Old 03-16-2011, 03:00:38 PM
BergmanJ BergmanJ is offline
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Default Re: Magniciter Theory FAQ

Here's another "take" (gleaned from Marine Training Manual #932-0405 supplied by Richard L. - Thanks Richard) on the same information. See Attached.

Regards, JLB
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  #25  
Old 04-05-2011, 08:02:50 PM
pvplas pvplas is offline
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Default Re: Magniciter Theory FAQ

If you need any info on the magnacitor or how to upgrade as the reactors are not
available, I work in the field for Cummins PG ( Onan) and have developed a few kits for our customers who want to keep the old gems running... I would be glad to share... It would make Gene Tadson smile from above to see his design still in use. Kilowatt.
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  #26  
Old 04-05-2011, 09:48:25 PM
Ted_Cool Ted_Cool is offline
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Default Re: Magniciter Theory FAQ

I'd love to take a look at what you have come up with.

I think some of us are learning the dark art of coil winding - just in case.

Isn't it funny how the magneciter isn't designed with fuses in the circuit ???
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  #27  
Old 04-06-2011, 07:49:58 AM
BergmanJ BergmanJ is offline
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Default Re: Magniciter Theory FAQ

PVPLAS,

Please post that information here for all to see.

Thank you very much!

Regards, JLB
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  #28  
Old 05-08-2011, 03:47:40 PM
Leon N. Leon N. is offline
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Default Re: Magneciter differences -06SX

Hello Ted:

Just happened to review the Magneciter FAQs. Very interesting. Re your question: Does anyone know when/where/why the different 06SX magneciters were used? I think I found the answer in the Onan JB Operators manual, # 967-320. See page 23 for the appropriate the parts key number. And on page 44, the note indicates the 06SX series was used on the 50 cycle plants.


Leon
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  #29  
Old 05-25-2011, 01:10:20 AM
Argent88 Argent88 is offline
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Default Re: Magniciter Theory FAQ

Onan magniciters are not like the Caterpillar SRCR gen sets . The Cats require over 40 amps DC to the rotor through the brushes, and any problems with the brush and slip ring contact causes sparks that will eat up the slip rings . Or cause the regulator to blow one ,or all of its three fuses or go out altogether. It was not a good design when compared to the Onan Magniciters .
One reason was the Onan didn't use the high amp excitation like the Cat did. And if you cant get your magniciter to work. You can remove it all together ,and contact Paul Huber at Powertronics in Kerville Texas and buy a UVR500 voltage regulator for around $225.00 .
Couple it up to a SE350 module for around $ 35.00 . Then just run off your old brush holder a set of F1 & F2 wires to the SE350 Pos and Neg post . You can mount this rig inside your control panel because it is about the size of a pack of cigarettes .
I still know customers that let us do this, and are still running the older brush type Onan gen sets over 250KW on their Farms and Dairy's with no problems at all .
Cant say that about the Cat SRCR gen sets .
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  #30  
Old 07-15-2011, 11:28:30 AM
jdzumwalt jdzumwalt is offline
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Default Re: Magniciter Theory FAQ

Ted, can you provide me with info for locating new or used magnaciter 06sx1n3b, now replace with pn 305-0899 kit, origioinal pn was 209-0100 for magnaciter. cant find info for power tronics in subsequent threads, do you have any info regarding this. Thanks. jd
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  #31  
Old 07-15-2011, 12:17:04 PM
Ted_Cool Ted_Cool is offline
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Default Re: Magniciter Theory FAQ

Magneciters are extremely rare, and expensive.

You can find Power-Tronics here

830 895 4700
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  #32  
Old 09-07-2011, 07:27:27 PM
loonatickman loonatickman is offline
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Default Re: Magniciter Theory FAQ

pvplas - i've got a 12MDJC-3R/2268R and can't get any voltage from it. If you have any manuals or info that might help in diagnosing this I'd really appreciate a copy. My Exciter is the 06SX1N3B also. It's a great diesel generator and I'd really like to get it working again for the coming winter season. Mike m_olesnevich@vernonsoft.com

Thanks.
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  #33  
Old 08-24-2012, 02:47:41 PM
BergmanJ BergmanJ is offline
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Default Re: Magniciter Theory FAQ

Folks,

I have attached the data sheet for stud-mount power diodes which make a good replacement for the original Onan's.

---------- Post added at 01:47 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:41 PM ----------

Well -- I thought that I did!

They are Ruttonsha International Rectifier, Ltd. 16FL40 [400V PIV] (or 60 [600V], or 80 [800v]), for one side (two diodes) of the power bridge. 16FLR40's. etc., are "reverse polarity", for the other two diodes of the power bridge.

These are inexpensive, available from Mouser, and a very good replacement (exact stud-mount as original).

Regards, JLB
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  #34  
Old 08-24-2012, 04:39:16 PM
GHanners GHanners is offline
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Default Re: Magniciter Theory FAQ

I tried to buy some mouser tells me 1 is in stock 1 is non stock with min order (i forgot the min order) do you have any of these spare or another source ?
Thanks
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  #35  
Old 08-24-2012, 06:16:40 PM
Jim Rankin Jim Rankin is offline
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Default Re: Magniciter Theory FAQ

yes, always need to check stock with Mouser before you finalize your order. I usually was able to find a higher amperage or higher voltage etc that was instock that would work.

digikey and others should have them. also look on ebay. Usually are some there as well. I have a cache of my own so I don't have to order every time I need one or two.
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  #36  
Old 08-25-2012, 12:06:24 AM
GHanners GHanners is offline
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Default Re: Magniciter Theory FAQ

what is the stock rating for the diodes ?
16a 400v ?
or is that a higher amp/volt to prevent failure ?
the ones you have listed are fast recovery it's only 60hz will std one work ?
16F40 & 16FR40 ?

what about voltage diodes p/n 305-0240 anyoine have a spec on them ?

Thanks

Fire Down could that be on shut down ?
as the rpms go down the hz go down so the voltage should rise to the field ?
or am i missing something

Last edited by GHanners; 08-25-2012 at 12:19:45 AM.
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  #37  
Old 08-25-2012, 12:28:35 AM
Power Power is offline
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Default Re: Magniciter Theory FAQ

I posted this before - did an ebay search and bought stuff off these folks - very reasonable - $2.95 incl. shipping direct from China, which is same place they all come from. I prefer American made, but seems they are all made in China now. On this replacement, Original was 25 amp 400 volts, I upsized a bit.

BRIDGE RECTIFIER -Model: KBPC3510 / 35A 1000V NEW
Seller:
Member id goodbuy711 ( Feedback Score Of 57928)
99.8% Positive feedback

Save this seller
| See other items from this seller

| Visit store: ALLPARTSPIPE
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  #38  
Old 08-25-2012, 03:08:58 PM
Jim Rankin Jim Rankin is offline
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Default Re: Magniciter Theory FAQ

'Fire down' refers to the point where the magneciter cuts the voltage to the field and it begins to collapse bringing generator terminal voltage down.

It should behave about like pulse width modulation. If the load is low, magneciter send voltage to field, which raises the voltage and it reaches "fire down" which causes the excitation to drop. Then as terminal voltage declines, the magneciter turns back on and you get another pulse which brings the voltage back up. With some resistance and inductance in the circuit, output voltage doesn't bounce around noticably.

Increase load and the voltage takes longer to come up, so the magneciter stays "on" more and "off" less. Above maximum load, if no breaker or fuse trips first, magneciter stays "on" full time and generator terminal voltage never reaches the 'fire down' voltage. Magic smoke soon appears!
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  #39  
Old 08-27-2012, 07:58:38 AM
BergmanJ BergmanJ is offline
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Default Re: Magniciter Theory FAQ

GHanners,

In response to #36 above: Yes, "regular" recovery is just fine; and, yes, the listings shown are "better" than the originals (more current capacity, and higher PIV).

"Power" (in #37) also has a good replacement for the whole bridge; my recommendation was to provide an "original-mount" part, which may seem easier for some folks.

Regards, JLB
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  #40  
Old 01-29-2013, 09:25:59 PM
Generactech Generactech is offline
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Default Re: Onan Magniciter Theory FAQ

I have several magniciter onan gens in my stash of older units. I have been searching for a simple way of being able to convert these 480 volt units to a more usable 120/240 unit.

I was looking at changing the 425 ohm resister (#3) to a 200 ohm to lower the voltage going into the voltage control reactor. any ideas as to helping me out would greatly further my efforts. I was thinking if it worked to add a DPDT switch to change the out put from 120/2540 to 480/277?
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