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Generac Generators (SEARS, etc.)

Hurrican coming and B&S shuts down...


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  #21  
Old 09-07-2012, 11:13:10 AM
len k len k is online now
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Default Re: Hurrican coming and B&S shuts down...

I think tanks are plastic just because they are cheaper to manufacture.
Up here in NH I wouldn't be worried about the inside rusting, the weather is pretty dry. Your weather is more humid, so your experience is more important than my guess. Try looking in an old lawn mower tank, to see if it has much rust. I'm guessing it won't, but let that be your guide.

Some generators that have plastic tanks, also have a metal heat sheild between the engine and tank, to keep tank cool and not melt!!

If you do buy the onan, I wouldn't bother modifiying this one. I think factory original look will bring more $$$ for your old one.
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  #22  
Old 09-07-2012, 01:49:35 PM
Fred M. Fred M. is offline
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Default Re: Hurrican coming and B&S shuts down...

Plastic tanks may be cheaper. However I was once warned to avoid generators with metal tanks because they will eventually rust out.

My old Craftsman Generac generator has a plastic tank. It has a plastic valve with a plastic mesh fuel filter poked up through a rubber grommet into the tank. I have had to replace a leaking fuel valve twice so far, which involves replacing the grommet. Removal would be the only way to clean a clogged filter, which may also require replacement.

By contrast, I was able to repair a leaking valve on a generator with a metal tank. Removal of two philips head screws allowed me to replace its internal parts with parts from another valve.

Do automobiles have plastic or metal gas tanks? If they are metal, is internal rusting a common problem?

Fred
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  #23  
Old 09-07-2012, 03:32:20 PM
len k len k is online now
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Default Re: Hurrican coming and B&S shuts down...

87. 89 Chev Caprice have steel tanks. 91 Caprice has plastic. Cheaper.

Had to replace tank on 87 due to rusty seam leak. But I do my own mechanical/body work and keep cars pretty long. And it was a good looking, but rusty car when it was ~3-4 years old.

My experience is usually tanks don't rust here in NH. I think the 87 came from Maine. They use alot of salt up there in winter, the salt really eats up the steel.
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  #24  
Old 09-07-2012, 04:37:12 PM
Power Power is offline
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Default Re: Hurrican coming and B&S shuts down...

Copied from "plasfuelsys"
Light-Weight Fuel Tanks
'Plastic fuel tanks can decrease vehicle weight and incidence of corrosion.' The American Chemistry Council

'Plastic tank systems also serve the dual purpose of decreasing the vehicle’s overall weight, as an average plastic tank weighs two-thirds less than an average steel tank.'

'In an Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) comparison test of a steel and plastic fuel system for a 1996 GMT600 passenger van, a steel tank system weighed in at 21.92 kg (48.32 lbs.), while the plastic system weighed only 14.07 kg (31.02 lbs.). (The fuel system tested consisted of three components: a fuel tank, straps to secure tank to frame, and a shield with unique function for each fuel tank system.)'

'In the same EPA test, the lighter weight of the plastic fuel tank system resulted “in significant savings in use phase energy relative to the steel.” This contributes to an overall lower life cycle energy requirement for the plastic tank system, and a potential significant savings in fuel cost.'

'A blow molded fuel tank saved the Audi A6 up to 20% in weight, with an efficient utilization of space, but without risk of corrosion.'


My summary:
The switch to plastic from terne tanks is for considerable weight savings, not cost savings.
The durability, crash damage and fire resistance of metal is given up to save weight.

To meet evaporative emission standards, typically 6 layers of different plastics are used. In late 1970's, Union Carbide was working on ways to seal the pores in plastic tanks using radiation. As I recall, the methods tried did seal the pores, but made the plastic brittle, and subject to cracking, so the multi layer method was decided upon.

Uploaded by dodgechryslersucks on Nov 22, 2009


The New Ford Pinto by Chrysler? Jeep Grand Cherokee Fuel Tank Fires, 1993-2004 Chrysler Jeep Grand Cherokee Vehicles with exposed plastic fuel tank located below the bumper and behind the rear axle. These Chrysler Jeep Grand Cherokees have burst into flames or exploded in rear end impacts as slow as just 25MPH and there are millions of Chrysler Jeep Grand Cherokees that are a danger to drivers and other drivers on the road.

It is also interesting that Jeep Grand Cherokee touted as a socalled "Trail Rated Off Road Ready" vehicle would have such an exposed fuel tank. It seems that Chrysler didn't learn much from history and suceeded in designing and manfacturing the "modern day Ford Pinto" for over 10 years.
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  #25  
Old 09-07-2012, 05:32:04 PM
Isaac-1 Isaac-1 is offline
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Default Re: Hurrican coming and B&S shuts down...

Just remember not all plastic is created equal, the U.S. Army uses "plastic" fuel tanks on M1 Abrams tanks (GL just had some listed for sale a couple of weeks ago, odd wedge shaped things and on HUMVEE's (a friend in the army tells me it is handy for when the fuel gauges stop working, you can just look under them and see how much fuel is left, of course that was before the new up armored HUMVEE came about).

Ike
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  #26  
Old 09-08-2012, 02:12:30 AM
poppaluv poppaluv is offline
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Default Re: Hurrican coming and B&S shuts down...

Quote:
Originally Posted by len k View Post
I think tanks are plastic just because they are cheaper to manufacture.
Up here in NH I wouldn't be worried about the inside rusting, the weather is pretty dry. Your weather is more humid, so your experience is more important than my guess. Try looking in an old lawn mower tank, to see if it has much rust. I'm guessing it won't, but let that be your guide.

Some generators that have plastic tanks, also have a metal heat sheild between the engine and tank, to keep tank cool and not melt!!

If you do buy the onan, I wouldn't bother modifiying this one. I think factory original look will bring more $$$ for your old one.
YOu know, now that you mention it, I have no issues inside of my now five year-old B&S mower tank-which is often half-ful or empty. I know ethanol is the enemy , therefore it does NOt get used in my daily driver, mower , antique cars,etc. I'd like to fill the tank ful to the brim and use Pri-g do to it's years long stabilization effects, but can only find, B-12 chemtool, seafoam and MMO. I will NEVER trust stabil past a couple of months...

Thanks for all the advice. I love this site. If I wasn't a slave to so many masters, I'd love to restore some really old stuff.

I am in the need however, of an old Garden tractor w/ pto and loader for my 3/4 acre up at the BOL...

I'm good w/ electronics, but worry about tapping into wires on this for an hour meter. I usually make more (read-more expensive repairs) problems for myself...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred M. View Post
Plastic tanks may be cheaper. However I was once warned to avoid generators with metal tanks because they will eventually rust out.

My old Craftsman Generac generator has a plastic tank. It has a plastic valve with a plastic mesh fuel filter poked up through a rubber grommet into the tank. I have had to replace a leaking fuel valve twice so far, which involves replacing the grommet. Removal would be the only way to clean a clogged filter, which may also require replacement.

By contrast, I was able to repair a leaking valve on a generator with a metal tank. Removal of two philips head screws allowed me to replace its internal parts with parts from another valve.

Do automobiles have plastic or metal gas tanks? If they are metal, is internal rusting a common problem?

Fred
I have never had a problem w/ my antique/classic cars over the years w/ rusting. It does happen, but some tank re finisher cleans preps and seals it good as new. I've used it in small amounts for some leaking dietz lanterns that were over a hundred years old!

I suppose by the time the tank starts leaking I can just coat it up.
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  #27  
Old 09-09-2012, 09:24:28 PM
Bassplayer1985 Bassplayer1985 is offline
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Default Re: Hurrican coming and B&S shuts down...

I do believe that most if not all metal fuel tanks are cured/coated with a rust inhibitor coating on the inside by DOT standards, least for auto tanks. Seams/petcock valves are the most common failure in any tank metal/plastic. It wouldn't surprise me though if the smaller tanks are not coated with an inhibitor at all.

If your fuel tank is metal I would make sure it has a good connection to ground otherwise the fuel inside acts as an electrolyte which oxidizes the metal tank thus rusting it. Process is called electrolysis. This may be another good reason why metal tanks aren't used on portable gennys anymore. Neutrals bonded to ground are common on portable gennys for obvious safety reasons.

Ive seen it happen to water pumps on cars, theres a bare braided cable that ussually connects to the frame of the car to the pump. If left unconnected, the electrical potential through the grounding of the car frame will basically eat away the impeller of the pump and hey you got an overheating car before long or worse.
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  #28  
Old 07-12-2019, 12:16:46 AM
poppaluv poppaluv is offline
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Default Re: Hurrican coming and B&S shuts down...

Another hurricane, same problem(?), and same gen.

I had to laugh so i didn't cry this evening. I put a gallon of good gas ( well, it may have had some condensation as i was using it previously to feed my new onan which need the carb RnR and left the top off with just a rag on top).

Anyway i look in the tank and see some surface rust in the seams(?). Nothing too bad, so i taped a magnet above the filter in the line. I put in some seafoam and poured in the gas. I turned it all on and it ran for a good 10 seconds with the first pull, then died.

One thing i have noticed is that the filter doesn't seem to fill with enough fuel. Could this because it doesn't have more than a 1/2 gallon?
Also, the filter looked a little weird after a few minutes, as if it the pleats shrunk.
Would water collect that fast after the pour and combine AFTER some good gas got to the carb?

I will try to post a pic of the filter setup, color and shape. Looks like tomorrow i will have a busy day picking up sandbags for an elderly lady up the street and get fuel, filter and such.
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  #29  
Old 07-12-2019, 12:31:42 AM
Thaumaturge Thaumaturge is offline
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Default Re: Hurrican coming and B&S shuts down...

If you are still without hour meter, these are what I use for my generators. Full inductive pickup (just wrap wire around plug lead and other end in slot on meter.)

Had other batch from a different supplier that were very old stock and soon failed due to dead non replaceable batteries, but those I got from this supplier seem to be okay.
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  #30  
Old 07-12-2019, 02:47:23 AM
poppaluv poppaluv is offline
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Default Re: Hurrican coming and B&S shuts down...

I actually just received 2 meters and a killawatt meter as recommended by you guys.

Someone mentioned rotella oil. Any particular type? I have a lot of running to do tomorrow. Who knows, maybe the onan will be up and running if the carb's gaskets don't fall apart.

My next project (after laying out and cutting new Onan decals) will be using my plotter to cut new gaskets after scanning them.
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  #31  
Old Yesterday, 02:44:52 PM
Bimmster Bimmster is offline
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Default Re: Hurrican coming and B&S shuts down...

My next project (after laying out and cutting new Onan decals) will be using my plotter to cut new gaskets after scanning them.[/QUOTE]

Cool Id like to know more on how this turns out!
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  #32  
Old Yesterday, 06:19:49 PM
Andrew Mackey Andrew Mackey is online now
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Exclamation Re: Hurrican coming and B&S shuts down...

If your filter has the paper element, the paper resists fuel flow. If you do not have much fuel in the tank, it could cause starvation, as fuel does not flow thru easily. With a full tank, there should be no problem. What size filter are you using? One of those 1" diameter ones like they used to use on VW bugs? Try using a larger diameter filter, it will flow more fuel. If you see an air gap in the filter, that is a good thing. It means fuel is flowing effeciently. if the filter is full of gas, it means the paper element is jamming - usually due to water in the fuel. When the paper element gets wet, fuel can no longer flow thru, as the paper swells and stops the fuel.

The interiors of auto metal fuel tanks are bare metal, from those I have seen. The switch to plastic was not universal. My 1988 R-20 Suburban had a 40 gallon plastic tank. My 1994 had metal, which rusted out after 260000 miles. My 2004 has plastic.

As long as you keep the tank full, you should have no problems with interior rust. If the tank is drained MT, you will need to seal it with tape, to keep moisture out of it The gas cap itself has a vent hole in it, so temperature changes and atmospheric variations will allow humidity into the tank, which means rust. If you keep the tank full, a couple of ounces of a good 2 stroke oil will do just as good as stabil, in keeping the gas fresh.

As for seafoam - it is made for use in oil, as a fuel additive, and as a rust buster product. The company has many good products.
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