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Honda EB6500 runing but No Power


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  #1  
Old 12-30-2014, 11:50:55 PM
n4v4jo n4v4jo is offline
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Default Honda EB6500 runing but No Power

I got a beaten up Honda EB6500 generator. The engine is still performing but the generator seems to have given up. I want to restore it and bring it back to a more decent live that what it had. I have read the three or four posts about a similar generator but could not find what I´m looking for.

I can measure 50 ohms at the brushes of the rotor. The two coils at the stator measure .5 ohms each. is that correct or two low?. Since I have not the shop manual I don't know if that is ok. If so I believe I may need to buy a new AVR.

I have flashed the rotor but no improvement so far, checked the breaker and protections.

Any suggestion where to keep looking for will be appreciated.

Thank you in advance for your help.
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  #2  
Old 12-31-2014, 10:20:06 AM
Dr.Fiero Dr.Fiero is offline
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Default Re: Honda EB6500 runing but No Power

Check for DC at the brushes with it running. Hopefully you didn't flash it backwards!
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  #3  
Old 12-31-2014, 03:56:22 PM
n4v4jo n4v4jo is offline
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Default Re: Honda EB6500 runing but No Power

Dr.Fiero I applied 12V DC positive on positive and negative on negative. Nothing changed afterwards.
Do you think .5 ohms at the stator coils is a correct value?

Thank you
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Old 12-31-2014, 09:10:21 PM
Dr.Fiero Dr.Fiero is offline
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Default Re: Honda EB6500 runing but No Power

Short your meter leads out to get the internal resistance, and subtract that.
So as long as you don't get 0.5 internal (ie, you have a dead shorted winding!) you're probably OK.

When you applied the 12V to the brushes was the engine running? Were you watching the AC output at the time? If not - try again, and see what you get for output while applying DC to the brushes.
If you get something for output (it'll be low), then you PROBABLY have an avr issue. But you'd still need to check the associated wiring. One thing at a time though....
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  #5  
Old 12-31-2014, 09:46:18 PM
n4v4jo n4v4jo is offline
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Default Re: Honda EB6500 runing but No Power

Hi Dr.Fiero

Leads impedance in my fluke is .1ohms so coils have .4 ohms so I assume they are ok. Look please at the picture. the AVR has its epoxy cracked so it seems like something overheated. I will order a new one and try then.

Thank you very much.
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  #6  
Old 01-01-2015, 07:10:03 AM
Arkie Arkie is offline
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Default Re: Honda EB6500 runing but No Power

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr.Fiero View Post
Short your meter leads out to get the internal resistance, and subtract that.
So as long as you don't get 0.5 internal (ie, you have a dead shorted winding!) you're probably OK.

When you applied the 12V to the brushes was the engine running? Were you watching the AC output at the time? If not - try again, and see what you get for output while applying DC to the brushes.
If you get something for output (it'll be low), then you PROBABLY have an avr issue. But you'd still need to check the associated wiring. One thing at a time though....
Quote:
Originally Posted by n4v4jo View Post
Hi Dr.Fiero

Leads impedance in my fluke is .1ohms so coils have .4 ohms so I assume they are ok. Look please at the picture. the AVR has its epoxy cracked so it seems like something overheated. I will order a new one and try then.

Thank you very much.
BEFORE you buy a AVR you need to do like the DR says and apply full 12v to the brush leads with ALL the AVR plugs Unplugged and the gen running at proper rpm's and your voltage at the 120v receptacle should be around 60-80v AC. (this is the bypass AVR test so as to see if a replacement AVR will MAYBE make it go) place a 5 amp fuse in one of the battery leads for smoke protection.
The AVR's are expensive from Honda, like maybe $300+ and no returns. I've bought GOOD used ones from flea bay for around $40 with careful shopping after getting correct part number from Honda parts dealer. You will need to find the serial number on the frame so as to get the correct part numbers.
If you AC voltage is low to none during the test post your serial number and I’ll see if I have any stator, rotor ohms specs for your’s. (need serial number so as to get on the correct page for your version of your model Honda. (about 4 different versions per serial number ranges)
Also if you get 50vAC or more with the AVR disconnected and 12v applied to the brushes disconnect all reconnect the AVR but leave it dangling by its wires and give it a sharp rap with something like a wooden broomhandle or large screwdriver handle while the gen is running and a test light connected to the receptacle and sometimes this will make the AVR operate for awhile but it will quit again when it get tired. Do not rap on the AVR if you have no voltage with the AVR bypass test because your AVR may still be OK and the gen issue is elsewhere and you could damage a good AVR.
(loose or broke connection inside the AVR and a sharp rap will temporary correct SOMETIMES)

Let us know what your voltage is with the AVR bypass test?.
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Old 01-01-2015, 03:40:59 PM
n4v4jo n4v4jo is offline
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Default Re: Honda EB6500 runing but No Power

Hi Arkie

I run the generator with 12VDC at the brushes and I got and outout of 50VAC. In order to get the 80VAC I need to apply 20VDC at the brushes.

The only S/N I found was on the engine side nothing on the frame as I read online. S/N GCAA-2044962

No changes with the AVR while giving a rap to it.
In the other hand I have seen some AVR in ebay at $79
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Honda-EB6500...item4d1acb4a57

I suppose the are Chinese stuff but in my case I have the generator as a backup in case of an power outage so not planing use it very intensively. If they are ok for short period of time and would not harm anything in case they fail, they seems to be good bang for the buck. What it your opinion about these AVR´s?


Thank you in advance for your help
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  #8  
Old 01-01-2015, 09:21:50 PM
Arkie Arkie is offline
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Default Re: Honda EB6500 runing but No Power

50 volts is close enough to confirm you need a AVR do not apply 20 volts.
Get a regulator (avr) and retest and when testing check the Hertz with no load and set it too close to 61-62 HZ with new regulator. Their is a screw and associated spring on the governor linkage that sets the HZ (engine rpm) and its common for the screw to vibrate or the governor spring to weaken and if the engine speed decreases little bit so the the Hz and the voltage will also be low. I've had to put blue or green thread locker on some of the governor adjust screws to keep them in place.
Appears maybe your Fluke may have a Hertz (frequency) scale.
I also noticed that the AVR you mention does not indicate it's for the EB series, check with the seller or get a part number from Honda. Honda in past frowned on patent infringement of their gen parts and had the electrical Honda gen parts market tied up. (I had never seen those NEW AVR's that's now selling??? I think the generator serial number is stamped into one of the lower frame rails. The serial number you posted is for the engine only.
If you cannot locate the gen serial # by careful inspection report back and I can dig out the EB6500 service manual to find the EXACT generator data location. (the Honda info is in the shop somewhere in a box with other SERVICE reference stuff from a recent move re-location)

Most places won't take back electrical or electronic returns even if they sell you the wrong part, so keep your money in your pocket until you are sure. Honda would not even order the regulator until you paid them first and no returns even if they ordered the wrong part. Therefore the (serial number is necessary for them to look for the correct part in their parts reference list. (I never did buy a NEW AVR from them due to their red tape and their high price, I just got part numbers from them and did computer searchs for used AVR's or found another gen for parts, etc. (could not justify spending $300-400 for a Honda OEM AVR for myself or anyone else) I would tell the customer up front what the price of new was and if I located a used one they bought in taking a chance that might not fix their unit permanently.
Another thing, I've seen some Honda gen stator windings start smoking, burning, and throwing big sparks out the end bell after running for about 30 min's when having voltage issues, therefore do not leave one unattended and running around any flammable materials. You might want to think about applying 12v to the brushes and let yours run for about 30 min too see if any additional issues or flameouts appear before going for a AVR. (the rotor only draws less than 1 amp at 12v therefore most any 12v battery will do the run test. Another thing, Most Honda gen's are self exciting, therefore after they have be at rest for several years they don't require a excite to get them going. (their is a stator under the engine flywheel that feeds voltage to the AVR for self excite when the engine starts)

Last edited by Arkie; 01-01-2015 at 09:42:58 PM. Reason: typo
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Old 01-01-2015, 10:24:38 PM
n4v4jo n4v4jo is offline
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Default Re: Honda EB6500 runing but No Power

Arkie

Man, I appreciate all the additional info, as said, not an expert on generators at all, handy with old airheads BMW´s but not generators.
Covered by mud-oil I found part of a label that say EA7-1115042 (see picture). I would appreciate very much if you can dig out, no rush but just to identify my generator serial number range.

The AVR I found in ebay sait it is for Honda EB6500 EC6500 EM6000 EM6500 ES6500K2 6.0KW 6.5KW 7.0KW 7.5KW AVR Assembly so it may work. $300 for a new one is way too much.

I think this manual will include my generator

http://www.ebay.com/itm/HONDA-EN3500...8e1a73&vxp=mtr

I think I will go for it in order to understand better what can fails, and how to fix it.

Again, appreciate your help very much.
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Old 01-02-2015, 07:35:34 AM
Arkie Arkie is offline
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Default Re: Honda EB6500 runing but No Power

Don't buy that manual yet.
send me a PM. (private message)
reference to Service manual info! I think maybe I still have some duplicate EB Honda service info that is better than that one on flea bay I can share and if so it will save you a few dollars.


May be few days before I get to look for the EB service stuff that shows the location of the Serial number. Rain, snow, cold, but I will make a note to look and get back too you.
I think the numbes are stamped into the lower frame rail then painted over, therefore hard to see unless exact location is known.

About AVR failures: A rule of thumb is too NOT simply kill the engine on a generator and Hondas while it's running loaded as it MIGHT shorted the life of the AVR because the voltage regulator goes into full tilt mode trying to increase the voltage regulation as the voltage is fading away. I also suggest keeping keep a heads up and try not to let the engine run out of fuel while a load is connected. Honda AVR's are sealed in epoxy with several wires coming out of the epoxy therefore a black box toss up and therefore not a easy electrical/electronic work around for subbing any other type of regulators.

Last edited by Arkie; 01-02-2015 at 07:55:39 AM.
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Old 01-02-2015, 03:27:36 PM
Arkie Arkie is offline
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Default Re: Honda EB6500 runing but No Power

The frame serial number per the SERVICE data sheet on the Honda EB6500SX is on top of the flat metal crossing plate at the bottom of the frame opposite side from the control panel. This appears as though it may be the same steel crossing plate that the engine to gen rubber motor mounts is attached and same side of gen as the muffler, but towards your right side when facing the muffler. Something like for example EZCH-1000001 and goes on up to 1013805 and up for the EB6500SX with ESS oil alert. I'm not sure if it's stamped or a glued on tag. If the number you show is in that area it is the frame number that's required by Honda dealers to obtain correct parts. Their are 5 different serial number ranges for getting on the correct parts page for the EB6500SX versions. They won't look for CORRECT parts info unless you can supply them a frame reference number. (but I've also found that after I obtained AVR part numbers from them that the same AVR part number would be same for other model Honda gen's of close to the same KW rating. I always had the SERVICE manager email me the part number for the AVR therefore if any questions came up later as to numbers not matching I had their data in writing so as I could get immediate answers from the same person, etc.

You asked what my opinion is of Honda gen's or AVR's. Hondas are very good equipment, just kinda a hassel to repair reasonable if used parts cannot be located. The AVR's are electronic equipment and can go out at any moment. I've seen the AVR's last forever and others just hit the wall, sometimes intermittently before they go. The hard ones to diagnose (AVR's) is the ones that become erratically intermittent. No voltage, then voltage and fail intermittently.
For Honda engine parts take a look at http://www.m-and-d.com/ scroll down on the right to Honda and look up your engine serial number for illustrated view and part numbers and prices. Once you get a part number you can do a bing or google search to find comparison prices, especially on ebay. Stay away from the Chinese Clone engine stuff, it's mostly junk as compared to OEM Honda. m&d has clone parts under the import parts list on the right side.
I've use Honda parts on a china clone but I do not go vice/versa. I'm not associated with m&D just bought parts from them in the past and very fast shipping UPS on a order usually and they have a good tech service dept by emails for parts questions.


Check your PM also.

Last edited by Arkie; 01-02-2015 at 08:26:05 PM. Reason: info typo
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  #12  
Old 01-02-2015, 06:49:54 PM
n4v4jo n4v4jo is offline
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Default Re: Honda EB6500 runing but No Power

Hi Arkie

Thank you very much, very valuable information. I will update once I get the new AVR (Chinese, so far I can not afford a OEM one).

Best regards
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Old 01-03-2015, 09:08:51 AM
Arkie Arkie is offline
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Default Re: Honda EB6500 runing but No Power

Quote:
Originally Posted by n4v4jo View Post
Hi Arkie

Thank you very much, very valuable information. I will update once I get the new AVR (Chinese, so far I can not afford a OEM one).

Best regards
check your pm inbox.
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Old 10-21-2016, 08:34:45 AM
j10998 j10998 is offline
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Default Re: Honda EB6500 runing but No Power

I hate to bump an old thread BUT I'm having the same problem. I bought a new regulator. No help i tried flashing the field. No help tho I would get between 35-65 volts AC when i was trying to flash the field at the outlets That voltage would go up and down depending where i had the one good diode stack plugged in. One diode stack was burned up when I bought it and I burned up the other one flashing the field. Is this normal? I was getting 27-30v DC at the brushes without the AVR hooked up and only 1.5v with the avr hooked up. I've looked for the diode stacks the cheapest i can find is $75 each. Ive seen in other forums elsewhere links to other websites like radio shack and the people there said the worked great but they are dead links. I have not tested the resistance of anything yet. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance.

My generator is an ES6500 A / K1
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