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Honda's New EU7000 Fuel Injected Generator


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  #1  
Old 03-17-2014, 02:03:17 PM
AlexV AlexV is offline
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Default Honda's New EU7000 Fuel Injected Generator

A new generator from Honda. Fuel injected a larger fuel tank, parallel operation, 7000 peak watts. Due out in May. Looks like a winner to me.

http://www.forconstructionpros.com/p...00is-generator
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  #2  
Old 03-17-2014, 03:58:34 PM
robertathonda robertathonda is offline
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Default Re: Honda's new EU7000 Fuel injected Generator

We have a couple of these at Honda HQ, and they are nice. The fuel injection system is simple, and I know the engineers are eager to see it implemented on other equipment too. The EU7000is can be pull-started, and does not need the battery to operate the fuel-injection.

-Robert@Honda
Caveat: I work for Honda, but the preceding is my opinion alone.
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  #3  
Old 03-17-2014, 04:32:03 PM
AlexV AlexV is offline
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Default Re: Honda's new EU7000 Fuel injected Generator

Robert any idea on the price yet? also how does the parallel operation work on 240V? Does it have its own plug on the cables or is it just like the EU2000's?
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Old 03-17-2014, 04:33:30 PM
Graycenphil Graycenphil is offline
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Default Re: Honda's new EU7000 Fuel injected Generator

That does sound great. Being a Honda, I wouldn't worry too much about the reliability of the injection system. But, being a generator I would worry about old gas. Will it be as easy to clean out as a carburetor? How much moe than an EU6500?
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Old 03-17-2014, 08:54:51 PM
Tim0477 Tim0477 is offline
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Default Re: Honda's new EU7000 Fuel injected Generator

Electronic or mechanical fuel injection system?

Tim
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  #6  
Old 03-17-2014, 10:17:46 PM
AlexV AlexV is offline
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Default Re: Honda's new EU7000 Fuel injected Generator

Tim its a mechanical fuel injection system.
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  #7  
Old 03-18-2014, 07:32:00 AM
Graycenphil Graycenphil is offline
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Default Re: Honda's new EU7000 Fuel injected Generator

The link above says "electronically fuel injected"; I don't know if it is right.
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Old 03-18-2014, 07:54:01 AM
Twin34 Twin34 is offline
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Default Re: Honda's new EU7000 Fuel injected Generator

Robert just wondering how many hours can I expect out of my Honda Eu3000(lifespan) I already posted about this but I would love to hear from the "HONDA" man himself,thanks

-Robert@Honda
Caveat: I work for Honda, but the preceding is my opinion alone.[/QUOTE]
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Old 03-18-2014, 09:34:58 AM
robertathonda robertathonda is offline
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Default Re: Honda's new EU7000 Fuel injected Generator

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim0477 View Post
Electronic or mechanical fuel injection system?

Tim
It's an electronic-based design. Here are a couple of pages from the shop manual with some details:





-Robert@Honda
Caveat: I work for Honda, but the preceding is my opinion alone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Twin34 View Post
Robert just wondering how many hours can I expect out of my Honda Eu3000(lifespan)
Honda does not publish engine life numbers. No doubt the engineers have plenty of data, but it is never shared. Doing so would imply a warranty specification or guarantee of performance / lifespan.

With regular maintenance, the GX200 engine in this EU3000is should comfortably log many, many hours of service. I've personally seen well-cared-for units rack up 2,500+ hours with no perceptible wear.

-Robert@Honda
Caveat: I work for Honda, but the preceding is my opinion alone.
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Old 03-18-2014, 10:26:48 AM
AlexV AlexV is offline
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Default Re: Honda's new EU7000 Fuel injected Generator

Robet How does the injector system work without a battery
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  #11  
Old 03-18-2014, 02:17:22 PM
robertathonda robertathonda is offline
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Default Re: Honda's new EU7000 Fuel injected Generator

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexV View Post
Robet How does the injector system work without a battery
It was a few months ago I started the prototype unit we had with the pull starter, and thinking back, I don't remember if it had a dead or missing/disconnected battery.

So, I think the more technically-correct description is (probably) the unit will pull-start if the battery is too weak to run the starter motor. The engineer and I are going to try and confirm this as soon as we have another prototype to play with for a while.

This is a large (390cc engine) and I'll tell you, it's an armful to pull-start, and highly motivating to help you remember to keep the battery on a tender if the unit will be parked for a while.

-Robert@Honda
Caveat: I work for Honda, but the preceding is my opinion alone.

-Robert@Honda
Caveat: I work for Honda, but the preceding is my opinion alone.
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  #12  
Old 03-19-2014, 12:15:52 AM
AlexV AlexV is offline
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Default Re: Honda's new EU7000 Fuel injected Generator

I found the video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXq1JGU4s2Q
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  #13  
Old 03-21-2014, 07:19:18 AM
LightsNE LightsNE is offline
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Default Re: Honda's new EU7000 Fuel injected Generator

Quote:
Originally Posted by robertathonda View Post
Here are a couple of pages from the shop manual with some details:
Bob,

Does the shop manual give any details about the paralleling of two EU7000s? Will there be a box that mounts onto one of the generators with a higher amperage 240V twistlock? If so, does it give the NEMA configuration and amperage of the twist-lock receptacle? Are there diagrams in the shop manual that you can post?

In terms of operation: do loads have to be evenly balanced on the combined two legs in parallel operation, or can one leg take most of the load without causing the generators difficulties? Thank you in advance for your informative posts.

Guy Holt
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Old 03-21-2014, 09:56:26 AM
robertathonda robertathonda is offline
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Default Re: Honda's new EU7000 Fuel injected Generator

Quote:
Originally Posted by LightsNE View Post
Bob,

Does the shop manual give any details about the paralleling of two EU7000s? Will there be a box that mounts onto one of the generators with a higher amperage 240V twistlock? If so, does it give the NEMA configuration and amperage of the twist-lock receptacle? Are there diagrams in the shop manual that you can post?

In terms of operation: do loads have to be evenly balanced on the combined two legs in parallel operation, or can one leg take most of the load without causing the generators difficulties? Thank you in advance for your informative posts.

Guy Holt
The parallel kit is still under development, and there are no official details, documentation, etc. I can share right now.

Pretty strong odds the kit will in an external enclosure that mounts to one of the two generators. It will likely have at least one or more hi-amp receptacles, probably a three prong 30A at minimum, and maybe a 50A as well.

Load balancing should be a non-issue; like other paralleled configurations, both generators should advance their throttle as needed to match the load, regardless of which receptacles are in use, on either unit, or if the load is only pulled from the shared receptacle(s) on the parallel box.

-Robert@Honda
Caveat: I work for Honda, but the preceding is my opinion alone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexV View Post
If you look close, the three yellow-colored connections on the control panel are where the parallel cords will connect.

That's Tom P., who manages Events Marketing, at the World Of Concrete show in Las Vegas...

-Robert@Honda
Caveat: I work for Honda, but the preceding is my opinion alone.
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Old 03-26-2014, 03:26:27 PM
Bassplayer1985 Bassplayer1985 is offline
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Default Re: Honda's new EU7000 Fuel injected Generator

Quote:
Originally Posted by robertathonda View Post
This is a large (390cc engine) and I'll tell you, it's an armful to pull-start, and highly motivating to help you remember to keep the battery on a tender if the unit will be parked for a while.

-Robert@Honda
Caveat: I work for Honda, but the preceding is my opinion alone.
Will the generator charge the starter battery when its running? Very few portable generators have that ability anymore because no one wants to put extra BCW's in the stator. You wind up having to plug the trickle charger into a generator outlet itself which is stupid to me.

I'd expect a compression release mechanism under 300rpms on the exhaust valve like most OHV engines. Static compression will be harder on high compression ratios. Hope it will be a bit higher (maybe 10:1 or even more) to get the most output power and still use 87 octane gas for a smaller form factor, and especially at lower than 3600rpms. Normally EFI allows for higher compression ratios with the use of an ECM, knock sensors, o2 sensors, and delayed ignition timing etc.

Is the EFI system this complex with an ECM or super basic with a timing circuit based off magneto intervals?

Also, not that its a big deal to most, what type of output stage filtering (RFI concerns) if any will be employed? THD+N? Active PFC on the output stage? (Helpful for inductive loads)

Surge capacity and for how long before overload shutdown occurs? Thermally limited? or electronically limited via time/wattage levels?

- brushless alternator? Capacitor/RRA topology or PMR?
- composite valve train? or steel gear driven?
- Adding a fuel gauge? Drain valve?
- Stainless steel fuel tank? Aluminum? composite?
- Propane or NG compatibility? Maybe a conversion kit?
- With EFI, fuel pump topology? Pulse? electrical driven? gravity?

If operating in parallel or a single unit if the load is 240 split phase you will need to balance the loads between the phases, if in 120VAC only then no its a non issue.

That's all I can think of at this point. I'm sure the reliability will be on par with all other Honda products. Hope my list can be answered. The "J-Engineer" that visited me a few months ago was not only impressed, but happy to talk tech at this level with a super user/consumer like myself.
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Old 03-26-2014, 04:12:06 PM
robertathonda robertathonda is offline
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Default Re: Honda's new EU7000 Fuel injected Generator

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bassplayer1985 View Post
Will the generator charge the starter battery when its running?
Yes...I only mentioned a tender as many people who buy a portable generator for home standby use don't use them often enough to keep the battery charged.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bassplayer1985 View Post
I'd expect a compression release mechanism under 300rpms on the exhaust valve like most OHV engines. Static compression will be harder on high compression ratios. Hope it will be a bit higher (maybe 10:1 or even more) to get the most output power and still use 87 octane gas for a smaller form factor, and especially at lower than 3600rpms. Normally EFI allows for higher compression ratios with the use of an ECM, knock sensors, o2 sensors, and delayed ignition timing etc.
Compression ratio is only 8.2:1, and will only require 86 octane regular unleaded. There is a compression release device on the camshaft built in to keep the exhaust valve open until centrifugal force (not sure at what RPM) disables it. Still, it's an armful to get all that mass moving from a dead stop with my (obviously wimpy) right arm.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bassplayer1985 View Post
Is the EFI system this complex with an ECM or super basic with a timing circuit based off magneto intervals?

Also, not that its a big deal to most, what type of output stage filtering (RFI concerns) if any will be employed? THD+N? Active PFC on the output stage? (Helpful for inductive loads)
Prelimanry specs I have state:
--Multi-electrode field rotation design
--Self-excitation, with a PWM (pulse width modulation) regulator
--No data on filtering (for now)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bassplayer1985 View Post
Surge capacity and for how long before overload shutdown occurs? Thermally limited? or electronically limited via time/wattage levels?
Rated @ 5500 watts 100% duty cycle, 7000 watt surge for 30 minutes. If overloaded, the genset shuts down, but engine will continue to run. Genset has thermal circuit protectors (and traditional hard circuit breakers).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bassplayer1985 View Post
- brushless alternator? Capacitor/RRA topology or PMR?
- composite valve train? or steel gear driven?
- Adding a fuel gauge? Drain valve?
- Stainless steel fuel tank? Aluminum? composite?
- Propane or NG compatibility? Maybe a conversion kit?
- With EFI, fuel pump topology? Pulse? electrical driven? gravity?
Brushless. Not sure of cap/rra or PMR tech.
Steel drivetrain, gear-driven camshaft
Fuel gauge (yes) Can't confirm fuel system drain valve
Steel tank (not stainless)
Unleaded gasoline only; Honda has no plans to offer LPG or NG version or kits, but it is likely the aftermarket will, even though they will, as history has shown, not be EPA approved.
EFI (yes), electric fuel pump rated at 43 PSI

More when I have production specs; the preceding are preliminary, but generally quite solid.

-Robert@Honda
Caveat: I work for Honda, but the preceding is my opinion alone.
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Old 03-27-2014, 02:06:55 PM
Bassplayer1985 Bassplayer1985 is offline
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Default Re: Honda's new EU7000 Fuel injected Generator

Damn Rob we got ourselves a nice generator in the works here! Kinda feeling spoiled with the info you are posting!

To fill in the final questions.

"Brushless. Not sure of cap/rra or PMR tech." Either a capacitor with rotating rectifier assembly or a permanent magnet rotor with RRA and no DPE winding.

"Is the EFI system this complex with an ECM or super basic with a timing circuit based off magneto intervals?" Will the system be smart and adjust the EFI and ignition on the fly with o2 and knock sensors or will it be a simpler circuit design with predetermined metrics like compression ratio, octane, displacement, etc.

Reason I ask this 2nd question gives me a better idea of how advanced your entering the market with an EFI portable generator.

Edit: ***Not EPA approved for a gas engine to run on NG/LP is a bunch of crap to me. Those are cleaner burning fuels although they have less BTU's than gas.

Last edited by Bassplayer1985; 03-27-2014 at 03:29:07 PM.
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Old 03-27-2014, 09:32:26 PM
AlexV AlexV is offline
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Default Re: Honda's new EU7000 Fuel injected Generator

This generator being fuel injected is a real game changer in the world of portable generators. No carburetor to gum up. I would rather change a fuel injector than do a carburetor cleaning or rebuild any day of the week. I would keep a spare fuel injector on my shelf in the garage. 7000 watts of peak clean power with a 5 gallon fuel tank that can run up to 18 hours at 1/4 load is incredible. Now throw in the parallel connection on that size generator and you have a real game changer in the market. I'll wonder if you could pull the full power out of that generator on 120v out of the parallel connection?
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Old 03-28-2014, 04:32:05 PM
AlexV AlexV is offline
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Default Re: Honda's new EU7000 Fuel injected Generator

Already for sale at a Honda dealer in Canada.
http://www.westsidehonda.ca/New-Inve...anitoba-578457
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Old 03-31-2014, 11:29:21 AM
robertathonda robertathonda is offline
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Default Re: Honda's new EU7000 Fuel injected Generator

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bassplayer1985 View Post
"Is the EFI system this complex with an ECM or super basic with a timing circuit based off magneto intervals?" Will the system be smart and adjust the EFI and ignition on the fly with o2 and knock sensors or will it be a simpler circuit design with predetermined metrics like compression ratio, octane, displacement, etc.
Will ask and find out. Sure would be nice if it was automotive style, with a brain that could adjust with octane changes.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bassplayer1985 View Post
Edit: ***Not EPA approved for a gas engine to run on NG/LP is a bunch of crap to me. Those are cleaner burning fuels although they have less BTU's than gas.
For many years, the EPA's rules said "okay, you can convert from gasoline to propane because propane burns cleaner." But, in 2006, the rules changed, and since then, the EPA (and California's ARB rules) say "You can't change ANYTHING on the fuel/emissions system unless you get the entire unit re-certified to prove it meets emissions. Any changes to the fuel/emissions system WITHOUT getting recertification is considered "tampering" and subject to fines."

-Robert@Honda
Caveat: I work for Honda, but the preceding is my opinion alone.
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