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Antique Steel Wheel Tractors - Old Iron Lugs and Cleats

WK40 Mccormick - how many are out there?


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  #61  
Old 09-16-2013, 10:55:22 AM
Howardh Howardh is offline
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Default Re: WK40 Mccormick - how many are out there ?

Hi Folks -

I sure appreciate the info and comments on the forum here! Extremely informative!

Here is # WKC-2450 fresh from a rescue mission last week. Other than the wheels, it is in very fine condition (for a fence row tractor) - the engine feels like it has compression - has a starter on it - and the hitch is not even beat up...








Howard
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  #62  
Old 12-07-2013, 11:06:54 AM
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Default Re: WK40 Mccormick - how many are out there ?

Here is a WK we bought some time ago, red diamond engine is actually not stuck. Over the last couple of years we found wheels and such, just got a good fuel tank at an auction two months ago.



---------- Post added at 11:06 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:37 AM ----------

And plowing with our other Wk.

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Old 12-07-2013, 03:33:40 PM
Titan1020 Titan1020 is offline
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Default Re: WK40 Mccormick - how many are out there ?

Here is my WK at a plowing get together. Came from the Great Falls, MT. area. The front axle is grooved from countless miles of wheat stubble! It's a 1936 model, WKC4279P. Fenders are perfect, as well as the manifold. Fun tractor to plow with.
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  #64  
Old 12-07-2013, 10:21:53 PM
Nebraska Kirk Nebraska Kirk is offline
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Default Re: WK40 Mccormick - how many are out there ?

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Originally Posted by Titan1020 View Post
The front axle is grooved from countless miles of wheat stubble!
My WA40 is the exact same way! It has steel wheels and the rear lugs show a LOT of wear, some are worn clear through. It came from Oklahoma so I am sure it put on many miles in wheat stubble too!
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  #65  
Old 12-07-2013, 11:37:59 PM
Old-F20 Old-F20 is offline
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Default Re: WK40 Mccormick - how many are out there ?

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Originally Posted by Nebraska Kirk View Post
My WA40 is the exact same way! It has steel wheels and the rear lugs show a LOT of wear, some are worn clear through. It came from Oklahoma so I am sure it put on many miles in wheat stubble too!


My old 15-30 had the same thing going on. Came out of SE Kansas. The front of the axle looked like a giant hacksaw blade
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  #66  
Old 12-28-2013, 01:05:52 AM
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Default Re: WK40 Mccormick - how many are out there ?

I bought a "running" T-40 engine at RPRU in Ohio last year. Not so sure about running but it was loose and everything looked respectable. No external cracks, breaks or welds. I guess I should have been suspicious of all the silicone on the oil pan . . .

When I got ready to take the crankshaft out, I noticed that there was a fair amount of end play. Upon closer inspection, I noticed that the thrust faces on the thrust main (no. 7) were very thin. It got worse. The bearing had attached itself to the crankshaft and had spun in the housing. What should have been a 2.875 tunnel bore is now about 3.020 and the crankshaft is also ruined. So, in just a few minutes, I went from a "running" engine to an engine with almost no salvageable parts. The block is shot as is the crankshaft. I may have saved the cylinder head and the pistons and sleeves.

Oh well, you win some and you lose some. I found a place on line that spray welds diesel blocks (decks and tunnel bores) and remachines them. I guess if this was a Duesenberg block, I'd go for that. As it stands, I'll just hunt for another 40 block!!

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all the folks on Smokstak!
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Old 12-28-2013, 03:21:52 AM
ihredo4 ihredo4 is offline
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Default Re: WK40 Mccormick - how many are out there ?

I feel your pain Eric. I bought an International 400 Diesel. It was frozen and when I was taking it apart I find that someone didn't get all the splines meshed correctly in the clutch and bound the engine up. Good News as the engine rolled right over then. But then the bad news...Took the injector pump off and found the whole side of the block cracked. I quit counting after I had measured 21" of cracks thru 6 or so bolt holes as well as both water jacket openings. 4 or 5 years later I finally found a good block for the tractor.
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Old 12-28-2013, 10:40:13 AM
Nebraska Kirk Nebraska Kirk is offline
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Default Re: WK40 Mccormick - how many are out there ?

There is a place in Kansas City that spray welds crankshaft journals. I checked into having my badly worn crank done and it would run $300 for mains and $300 for rod journals. I since found another engine that supposedly ran until the block cracked.
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Old 12-29-2013, 12:24:37 AM
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Default Re: WK40 Mccormick - how many are out there ?

Thanks, Kirk. I will keep that in mind as I am beginning to run short on crankshafts as well.

The problems is with the block itself. I believe Republic Diesel in Lexington, KY can spray weld both the bearing saddles and the thrust faces on the cast iron block. The bearing spun just long enough to wear the thrust faces on the crankcase enough to allow the flanged bearing to rattle end to end. The diameter is even bigger problem as the bore has been beaten well oversize. No way to get a stock bearing to fit tight in that except to build up the block.

If I decide not to go the route of spray welding the crankcase and remachining it, I am considering having the bore and thrust faces trued up and cutting a new thrust bearing from a heavy wall bronze tube. It won't have the embedability characteristics of babbitt lined steel but it should be good as long as the oil is kept clean.
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Old 12-29-2013, 10:09:27 AM
Tony Thompson Tony Thompson is offline
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Default Re: WK40 Mccormick - how many are out there ?


I have plowed (ploughed) my thank you button under again.
This is a really nice thread with lots of good illustrations and very useful information. These strong old work horses play a large role in our agricultural history and though I do not own one, it is a pleasure to come here and learn so much about them from everyone that has posted on this thread.
Thank you, and good luck on your projects everyone!
Tony
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Old 12-29-2013, 09:28:02 PM
Mark Schneider Mark Schneider is offline
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Default Re: WK40 Mccormick - how many are out there ?

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Originally Posted by Eric Best View Post
I bought a "running" T-40 engine at RPRU in Ohio last year. Not so sure about running but it was loose and everything looked respectable. So, in just a few minutes, I went from a "running" engine to an engine with almost no salvageable parts.
We are very familiar with this W-40 engine scenario. If I could put a title to it it would be "How could an engine that looks so good be so shot?" When the two W-40's were delivered to my place (post #57) we decided to work on #9842 (post #39) as it showed the most promise. The engine was loose, there were no external cracks,and the manifold was still useable. I slid it in the shop, freed up the stuck valves, and checked compression...0 psi on every cylinder. Removed the head to find rusted valve seats were the culprit so sent the head out for a valve job. In the meantime I looked into the salvageability of the transmission as the belt pulley was off and the front of the transmission had sat open for years. It took about 3 days with the milkhouse heater to melt the ice and grease out of the housing. I was pleasantly surprised as the heavy transmission oil had formed a layer of "cosmoline" and there was very little corrosion damage. With the shifter levers freed up the transmission looked very seviceable. I was about to rob the clutch parts out of #2811 (post #22) and put them in this tractor when this thought strayed into my mind..."I wonder if the oil pump is turning?" I removed the rear lifter cover and lifter rack and stuck my finger around the corner to the oil pump gear and turned the motor over. THE GEAR DID NOT MOVE! I pulled the motor and opened it up. Almost the duplicate of damage that #2811 had....Fried crankshaft and bearings, stripped oil pump gear and broken oil pump body, and oil pump drive gear on the camshaft gone. Almost all the lifters were pitted badly and would need to be resurfaced. Not the most encouraging day but hey! you win some and lose some. So undaunted we started on the engine on tractor #3........
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  #72  
Old 12-29-2013, 10:55:36 PM
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Default Re: WK40 Mccormick - how many are out there ?

Mark-your title for the scenario is spot on. It seems to happen with greater frequency on the FBB engines than most. Not IHC's finest hour. The WD40 engines can be about as bad but at least it is because of high hours and not poor design. I think I am determined to fix this engine just so I can say it didn't beat me but I admit it is probably not the right decision.
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Old 12-29-2013, 11:13:52 PM
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Default Re: WK40 Mccormick - how many are out there ?

I received my antique power magazine tonight and there was a very nice article in there on a wk40, I enjoyed reading the article until about the last paragraph where the owner of the tractor said he has turned down $50,000 for it. I do not know what my wa-40 is worth but that figure sounds obsurd? any input on here? My wa is not for sale anytime soon but this seems foolish scale pricing???? Just my opinion....
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Old 12-30-2013, 01:30:58 AM
Nebraska Kirk Nebraska Kirk is offline
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Default Re: WK40 Mccormick - how many are out there ?

I agree, that is an absurd figure! My opinion is that he should have accepted the offer! You can buy nicely restored WK40s for a LOT less than 50 grand!!!
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Old 12-30-2013, 11:22:05 PM
Mark Schneider Mark Schneider is offline
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Default Re: WK40 Mccormick - how many are out there ?

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Originally Posted by Eric Best View Post
I am considering having the bore and thrust faces trued up and cutting a new thrust bearing from a heavy wall bronze tube.
Eric...Your plan of action here intrigues me and I'll be interested to know how it turns out. I have some questions about this operation and with you being the "inhouse guru" of sorts on W-40, WD-40 tractor series maybe you can enlighten me. I assume that a align boring machine will have to be used to true up the main bearing bore. How do you deal with the fact that none of the main caps are piloted on the W-40 block? There is no alignment pins, studs or bosses that would insure that the main caps would be reinstalled in the same position as when removed. The main caps....well....just kind of slop around in the bolt holes. It appears that IHC used the crankshaft itself to pilot the mains during assembly but who knows how much the caps got tweaked during the final tightening sequence.
Another question is this.....When IHC align bored the mains were the shim packs installed before or after boring? Are the main bearing bores round without shims and made egg shaped by adding them, or are they made round with the shims and made egg shaped by removing them?
These are issues that I have been mulling over as I try to come up with a plan of action on our W-40 engine parts pile.
If you tackle this project be sure to post some pictures. Would it be possible just to true the crankshaft, chuck the bearing shells over your left shoulder, and pour a babbitt bearing for #7 journal?
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Old 12-31-2013, 12:25:08 AM
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Default Re: WK40 Mccormick - how many are out there ?

Mark, this alignment issue is most likely the reason for the bearing failures. Several builders used this approach and they work well IF you know the trick! The Perkins diesels also were built this way to save machining expense in production. The old Hercules L head motors also did this, if the bearing caps are off center it won't carry decent oil pressure and the reason the mains fail. A relative of mine who was a early Gleaner service man taught me the method after my Herc. on my first Gleaner failed the second tine if just a short time. Very expensive lesson for a newby with little cash. The TRICK, when you start to tighten the main caps, just snug them up a little. All of them, then take a good sized hammer and give each cap a right smart rap on the center between the bolts. The cap will center itself, I do this procedure 2 times to be sure then torque them down. The shaft should still be able to rotate without any binding. This always works, the bearing will be true to the bore and will carry the oil pressure as it should if the rest of the system is good. These motors last well when sent out new but fail shortly after a overhaul, this is the reason. Most of the rebuilds are home grown and those folks aren't well versed on the little quirks built into them. F.J.W.
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Old 12-31-2013, 01:53:56 AM
Nebraska Kirk Nebraska Kirk is offline
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Default Re: WK40 Mccormick - how many are out there ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Schneider View Post
Another question is this.....When IHC align bored the mains were the shim packs installed before or after boring?
There are no shims.
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Old 12-31-2013, 11:06:23 AM
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Default Re: WK40 Mccormick - how many are out there ?

Kirk - there may not be shims now but at least the engines with main studs and maybe the later ones with bolts were built with 12 thou (4@3 thou) of shims on the tang side only of the rod and 6 thou (2@3 thou) of shims on both sides of the mains. They are in the parts books and I have taken several apart that still had them. None of them serve to separate the halves of the precision inserts and neither the rod housings nor main housings are round without them unless someone has changed them. Only the rod bearings were considered adjustable for a total vertical adjustment of 6 thou after which 6 thou under shells were available and you just kept wearing the shaft down - after reinstalling the previously removed shims. I am doing away with the shims on my rods and possibly on the mains and having all bores made round. As for the non piloted main caps, either blue or silver diamonds are also this way. I like Frank's technique for centering the caps. IH says to center them using heavy grease on the shaft.

I wonder if the reason for the shims on the mains was simply to allow the caps a more slippery surface on which to move when trying to center themselves. Interestingly, the later non piloted main cap IH engines do not appear to use shims so that theory may be incorrect.

FYI - if you have non piloted main caps that refuse to center, look for upset cap material in the bolt bore from many rebuilds and retorquings! My machinist cleans mine up with a piston pin bushing hone but an adjustable reamer is probably sufficient.

Since the shims never separate the bearing halves the rod adjustment appears to be totally the result of increased clamping pressure on the insert as shims are removed. I didn't believe that possible until I tried putting an original rod back without the shims. Incidentally, if you look at a w40 rod and bearing insert, you will see that the insert does not part at the same place as the rod and cap.

Last edited by Eric Best; 12-31-2013 at 01:45:04 PM.
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Old 12-31-2013, 09:41:48 PM
Nebraska Kirk Nebraska Kirk is offline
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Default Re: WK40 Mccormick - how many are out there ?

I'll be darn! I looked in the parts book and sure enough, there are the shims, learn something new every day!
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Old 12-31-2013, 10:27:48 PM
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Default Re: WK40 Mccormick - how many are out there ?

I know, Kirk. I was shocked about the main shims. I knew about the rod shims. When I installed a new set of 0.020 bearings on a properly ground 0.020 crank, I liked to ruined them before I realized the tunnel bore was not round without them. I looked in the book and there they were. Not much detail about them but I dug the old shims out of a box from when I tore the engine apart and there were 2 0.003 shims for each side of each main. Put them in, everything plastigauged perfectly and I was on my way.

The rods I had machined round because my machinist was very confused as to why every rod I brought him was 0.006 out of round. Then I remembered the shims. I told him to scrap the shim idea, hone the rod big end to 2.362 and it all worked out perfectly. The main housing bores are listed as 2.875 but they'll only be round at that dimension if the shims are in place or you get somebody to line bore them round (which is what I am considering).

Eric.

---------- Post added at 08:27 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:21 PM ----------

Oh, about the article in Antique Power. I enjoyed it, too and the gentleman has a nice tractor but some of the information is questionable. He talks about the odd size of the wristpin. It's not that odd. It's 1.109 which is the same as some H's and M's. In fact, I used H wristpin bushings when rebuilding a 40 (same part number). All Red Diamonds used 1.109 pins. The comment about the engines used in the trucks built for Hoover Dam work being the basis for the W-40 is plausible and I would not presume to debate him over this. As for the 50k offer, he should have taken it and run. If these tractors were worth that, we'd go into production with new crankshaft and bearing sets tomorrow! Might even cast new crankcases!!! Or, I'd sell my fleet and buy a 30-60 Mogul . . . and a few others.
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