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Buying an Onan 5.0 CCK-3CR, have some pre sales questions


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  #1  
Old 12-14-2007, 09:24:08 AM
SonoraMike SonoraMike is offline
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Default Buying an Onan 5.0 CCK-3CR, have some pre sales questions

Looking at purchasing an Onan 5.0 CCK-3CR/12016R, serial C760110303 pulled from an RV for a remote cabin setup. I've got some questions before I drive the hour to potentially load it up. Confirmed that it runs and makes 120v but thats about all I know right now, looking to learn a bit more.

General questions:

- He says its a mid 70's model, is there a way to confirm the year, or decode the model & serial to determine how this is put together?

- He read the plate info to me over the phone, he says that the plate says:

"AMPS 20-8"

shouldn't it say 20.8/41.6?

- I can't find much info about the configuration on this, is this the type of genset that will allow me to run a single 120 plug or a single 240 plug at full amperage?

- Could I run 120 and 240 at the same time? I have a 240v well pump and large 120v power tools that I'll be running off of it. In a perfect world a relay setup would allow me to rotate a switch to config the head (with engine off of course) for 120v, or 240, or both 120 and 240.

- It appears to have remote start, but he didn't pull the dash panel for it... bummer. Any idea on how far away the switch can be from the CCK? i.e. wire run length. I'm hoping to put the generator in a shed about 150' or so away from the house and then mount a switch panel in the house with on/off and a running indicator light. Info on how to put a panel together?

- is the CCK a viable candidate for a dual fuel/LPG conversion?

- electronic ignition conversion available?

- are there hoist mounting points for me to be able to use a lift/hoist to get it into the truck. I'm a big guy, but not 'lift 300 lbs by myself' big...

- the plate has no info in the DCV area, assuming that means there is no 12v output off the genset, is this true and if so is the 12v easy to add? I'd like to change a battery bank that powers the inverter when running the generator.

- does this model use the circuit board that is prone to lighting itself on fire?

- anything to be cautious of when considering a purchase of this model?

- any in-depth info on the CCK in the smokstak forums, or somewhere on the web that I can read up on?

Thanks in advance, I'm hopeful that this will sit in at my cabin soon but want to be sure I've got a good handle on what I'm getting myself into.

Mike
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Old 12-14-2007, 01:43:47 PM
SonoraMike SonoraMike is offline
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Default Re: Buying an Onan 5.0 CCK-3CR, have some pre sales questions

found the decoding info in the FAQ, looks like a March of 76 build date for this one

CCK = 3.25" bore X 3" stroke, 50cu in, 2-Cylinder, Side-Valve, 5.5:1 Compression ratio

-3cr reads as 120/240v, 3 wire, with carb and remote start

no decode for options - and unsure on the R, maybe "Remote (Always Electric Start)" ??
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Old 12-14-2007, 03:06:40 PM
VaughnSimon VaughnSimon is offline
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Default Re: Buying an Onan 5.0 CCK-3CR, have some pre sales questions

Yes, you should be able to draw both 120 and 240 in the same manner that you do in your house every day. Connecting "Hot-to-Hot" will give you 5 KW @ 220. Connecting from center tap (neutral) to either how will give you 2.5 KW @ 110 (plus another 2.5 kw on the other side).

Assuming that the unit has a gasoline carb. (some are set up for propane) there are third party suppliers that supply conversion kits for gasious (propane or NG) fuel.

You can extend three wires to your house (Probably #14 for that length) to start/stop the unit. You probably want to get a but more fancy than that & add a "Generator run" light and a voltmeter to your panel.

You will want to obtain the CCK parts and operator's manuals if they don't come with your unit.

Welcome to the group! I use a 4CCK for my home's backup.

Vaughn
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Old 12-14-2007, 03:50:11 PM
SonoraMike SonoraMike is offline
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Default Re: Buying an Onan 5.0 CCK-3CR, have some pre sales questions

thanks for the welcome Vaughn, spent "some time" here searching around prior to joining up, lots of great info that I'm sure will come in handy.

this is all new to me but learning quickly.

how well regulated is the output on these - something you could run sensitive computer equip off of, or would you need/want a conditioner in line?
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Old 12-14-2007, 04:46:16 PM
VaughnSimon VaughnSimon is offline
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Default Re: Buying an Onan 5.0 CCK-3CR, have some pre sales questions

Quote:
how well regulated is the output on these - something you could run sensitive computer equip off of, or would you need/want a conditioner in line?
I suppose different people will give you different opinions. To be honest, the output from my Onan is not quite as good as what I get from the power company. I have a little UPS on my computer that complains (with a beep) every minute or two when it is running off of the Onan. I run my plasma TV and other entertainment electronics from the Onan without any power conditioning and have never had a problem.

The truth is, most electronics these days has switching power supplies that will happily run off of most anything you feed into them. I believe that the need for "pure" power is vastly overrated with today's electronics. The only reason I have that UPS on my computer is to carry me through short power failures.

Your power quality will also depend on the types of loads you run and the guage of feed cable that you install to your generator. It takes the generator a fraction of a second to recover from the voltage and frequency droop caused by the starting surge of large loads (pumps, AC units, refrigerators etc.) The CCK is made with lots of copper and Iron and so will do better in this regard than any "5 KW" generator that you can buy at your local big box store.

Vaughn
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Old 12-14-2007, 06:44:51 PM
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BTPost BTPost is offline
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Talking Re: Buying an Onan 5.0 CCK-3CR, have some pre sales questions

Hello Mike, If you get the CCK, I think you will be pleased with it's operation.
LP/NG conversions=Yes Talk to Vaughn
Electronic Ignition=Yes Talk to Vaughn
Remote Start Capable=Yes (-3CR Voltage Code in your Model Number)
120/240 Vac Output=Yes (-3CR Voltage Code in your Model Number)

You may find that this CCK was wired from the factory as a 120 Vac Only,
Unit even though it has a -3C Voltage Code. One fellow on a previous thread
had an Ex-RV Unit like yours that was a -3C, but only had a single Circuit
Breaker fitted and was wired for 120 Vac Only. Changing the Output Wiring
to 240 Vac or 120/240 Vac is trivial, but you may not have a second Circuit
Breaker fitted in the Control Box. since this is going to be a Remote Cabin
Site, a Double Pole Main Circuit Breaker in the Primary Power Panel will
take care of that problem.

It would be my suggestion that if you plan on both a Well Pump (240 Vac)
and High Amp 120 Vac loads, that you might want to look into Generating
your Power at 240 Vac and then using a Transformer to make your 120 Vac,
due to the fact that you can then use 100% of the Genset Capacity to
power your 120 Vac Loads. If you generate your Power at 120/240 Vac,
you will be limited to 50% of your maximum Load, on each of the 120 Vac
Legs, which may hinder you Shop Tooling. With only 5Kw, and big Shop
Loads, you likely will need to have your loads balanced across the Genset,
and a Transformer does that for you.
__________________
Bruce in alaska
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Old 12-14-2007, 09:46:10 PM
SonoraMike SonoraMike is offline
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Default Re: Buying an Onan 5.0 CCK-3CR, have some pre sales questions

well, I pulled the trigger, but not without some hesitations. it lives in the back of my pickup, and I'm just back in the door. pictures to follow tomorrow. turns out it was sitting in an RV wrecking yard, in hindsight I wish I would have asked them about a remote panel while I was there. there's an RV shop in town that I'll hit next week and see what they have

its an interesting looking beast, but for $300 even with the concerns* I felt that the head itself is worth that so I opened the tailgate and had them load it up

*concern/hesitation - there is a slight knock that *could* be valve train <fingers crossed>, but I think the unit has seen a bit of usage over the years and clearly has not been tuned up. going to adjust valves right off. there is some oil/carbon weeping from the top of the intake where it drops into the cylinder. I took a 2' hunk of 1" pipe and tried to use it as a stethoscope holding it up to my ear to try to identify where the knock chatter was coming from without success -- which didn't make me feel good... if its rod knock then I guess I'll get the rest of the motor tightened up and see how bad it ends up being and then re-evaluate. its not bad at all, just not the quiet purr that I was hoping for.

*concern2 - exhaust is spitting small wet black droplets when it first fired up. this could be because the exhaust is sitting straight up ala 18 wheeler exhaust and all the moisture is sitting down low and getting spit out. it didn't smell rich or tuned on the fat side, but I'll need to deal with the carb

carb is in need of rebuild, some seepage from bowl. and when a load is dropped on the unit there is some surging for a 2-3 count and then it settles out. took a small 2hp 110v air compressor with me as a test and it started the compressor up with a quick surge and not much of a change in exhaust note. let the pressure in the compressor tank run up to about 80lbs and then shut compressor off, let it sit for a second and then turned the compressor back on to create a bigger load in starting the compressor. same thing - quick surging for 2-3 seconds and then it settled down, didn't seem to have too much trouble with it.

all in all its pretty clean for a 30 year old unit, it fired right up (although somewhat warmed up when I got there)

it appears to be 240 ready so that was good, and I guess I can rig one of the old GM car alternators I have lying around to it somehow to get 12v output for battery charging

thanks for the input BTpost and Vaughn - as far as loads go it will be pretty light to start, I'm hoping to be able to have additional higher loads in the future but for now it will be the table saw and a skilsaw running at the same time with the stereo, maybe a vacuum thrown in with it worst case. In the summer time we'll probably run a little in-window 110v AC unit. 240 loads are also futures as well, so for the immediate I'm in great shape pending a motor tune up and re-eval. my computer work is done off of a laptop so I'll trust the laptop's 110->18v transformer to do the line conditioning for me. TV is an old sucker so I'm not worried about it.

more later when I know it

next step is a service manual - is there a source for an electronic version somewhere?
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Old 12-14-2007, 11:53:32 PM
David W. David W. is offline
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Default Re: Buying an Onan 5.0 CCK-3CR, have some pre sales questions

Hard to add anything to Bruce in Alaska and Vaughn (in Palm Beach, ironically), but your CCK will have sufficient 12Volt DC output to keep a starting battery charged, if that's your concern. If you need more than that, I'd suggest a 120 Volt AC input/12 Volt DC output battery charger, sized to your needs.

And on the remote start, you don't necessarily have to have a ONAN designed panel for that. There are several other strings located here that will guide you on "how to" do it with "off the shelf" parts.

I've got some PDF files on CCK maintainance I'll be glad to share electronically, if you'll send me an e-mail with a good address for you - to cbreezewalker@aol.com.

Good Luck with your project.

David W.
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Old 12-15-2007, 12:05:14 AM
SonoraMike SonoraMike is offline
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Default Re: Buying an Onan 5.0 CCK-3CR, have some pre sales questions

David

Email sent, thanks so much for the offer, very generous.

>> but your CCK will have sufficient 12Volt DC output to keep a starting battery charged

where would I find that output, I'm not confident that I have it available.

>> There are several other strings located here that will guide you on "how to" do it with "off the shelf" parts.

search is my very good friend lately.

So what are people using for gas tanks?? I realize I have no tank and need to come up with a solution prior to installing duel fuel setup for LPG

And starting batteries? 600 CCA or so?
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Old 12-15-2007, 12:17:20 AM
RSlifkin RSlifkin is offline
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Default Re: Buying an Onan 5.0 CCK-3CR, have some pre sales questions

Black stuff in the exhaust could be carbon, that could also cause the knock, my MCCK (marine version) has gotten louder and rougher over time from carbon, Onan sells stuff called 4C, a carbon remover spray.
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