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Military MEP and Aircraft Gen-Sets MEP Mobile Electric Power, APU Auxiliary Power Unit and other military surplus generators.

Military MEP and Aircraft Gen-Sets

Kruz and Root starting procedure


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  #1  
Old 08-09-2019, 07:44:40 PM
Caseck Caseck is offline
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Default Kruz and Root starting procedure

Hello everyone,
I have a 1959 or 1960 Kruz and Root generator. It hasnít been started in about 20 years but everything seems to look good, I checked all the fluids and got it to move over with a wrench. I have no experience with generators but what is the starting sequence? just move the toggle to start and then the other toggle to engine start? I can see the throttle handle. Looks like there is no circuit close toggle but there is a giant breaker switch which I assume closes the circuit. I couldnít find manuals for operating this model but it seems fairly simple. Just donít want to fry the machine or worse myself. I attached pictures of the control panel.
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  #2  
Old 08-10-2019, 05:35:31 AM
Rich Mc Rich Mc is offline
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Default Re: Kruz and Root starting procedure

Before rotating the engine/generator I would open all of the control panels and the stator inspection panels or screens to carefully look for evidences of creatures nests and other foreign materials that they may have brought into the unit. Creatures find many locations in gensets as the perfect home with their turds, urine, nest material, discarded nut shells and other items.
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  #3  
Old 08-10-2019, 10:16:03 AM
Caseck Caseck is offline
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Default Re: Kruz and Root starting procedure

Thanks Rich,

Definitely some rodent turd action inside this unit. I spent my morning vacuuming everything out. Luckily I didnít see any chewed wires. Looks like it was a family of squirrels. Now that I have everything cleaned up I would like to try starting it tomorrow. Still not sure of the process of working the control panel though.
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Old 08-11-2019, 07:04:14 AM
Rich Mc Rich Mc is offline
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Default Re: Kruz and Root starting procedure

Do you have more nameplate information like the military stock number or any other markings?
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Old 08-11-2019, 09:41:54 AM
Caseck Caseck is offline
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Default Re: Kruz and Root starting procedure

Iíve been all over this thing and canít find a data tag anywhere. I think it was repainted in the 90s and maybe they took it off and never replaced it. There are a couple of maintenance tags from back in 1960 and 1961 where it got new cam rollers. Those tags only seem to have the work order number though. Only identifying thing related to the generator side that I could find is this part number. Also there are no battery cable ends to hook the batteries up to. So going to get those today and possibly try starting it tomorrow.
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Old 08-11-2019, 10:20:18 AM
25Eagle34 25Eagle34 is offline
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Default Re: Kruz and Root starting procedure

Quote:
Originally Posted by Caseck View Post
Hello everyone,
I have a 1959 or 1960 Kruz and Root generator. It hasnít been started in about 20 years but everything seems to look good, I checked all the fluids and got it to move over with a wrench. I have no experience with generators but what is the starting sequence? just move the toggle to start and then the other toggle to engine start? I can see the throttle handle. Looks like there is no circuit close toggle but there is a giant breaker switch which I assume closes the circuit. I couldnít find manuals for operating this model but it seems fairly simple. Just donít want to fry the machine or worse myself. I attached pictures of the control panel.
Is it gas or diesel as see where you could put a starting fluid cartridge for starting and not normally use with gas engines? A few more photos of the complete set would help. Any idea of KW rating?
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Old 08-11-2019, 01:25:02 PM
Caseck Caseck is offline
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Default Re: Kruz and Root starting procedure

Thank you eagle,

I had posted a thread before about trying to get more info on this unit, here is the link to my thread:
https://www.smokstak.com/forum/showthread.php?t=187638
It is diese, has a P&H 3 cylinder diesel in it. According to another member it is rated at 80hp at 1800 rpm which this motor is setup for. I originally thought it was approximately 20KW but another member mentioned maybe 35KW. On the KW gauge in the control panel, I saw there is a line marked at 37.5 KW and it corresponds with the 100% output mark on another gauge. So I think it is about 35 KW. Anyway, here is a picture of the whole unit. Thanks for your help.
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Old 08-11-2019, 08:26:50 PM
Rich Mc Rich Mc is offline
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Default Re: Kruz and Root starting procedure

Good reading on the engine at this link.


https://www.smokstak.com/forum/showthread.php?t=66615
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  #9  
Old 08-12-2019, 10:01:59 AM
Caseck Caseck is offline
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Default Re: Kruz and Root starting procedure

Thanks! That is an interesting read, cool to see that they used this motor in draglines. YouTube has a video of a P&H 255a with one in it. Canít find any video of one running though. Iím assuming itís going to sound like a Detroit 3-53. Hopefully Iíll get it running today and Iíll take some video and post the link in here for anyone interested.
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Old 08-12-2019, 01:45:13 PM
Andrew Mackey Andrew Mackey is offline
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Default Re: Kruz and Root starting procedure

Make absolutely sure that criters have not put anything in the intake or exhaust systems! I had a K&R that something filled the muffler with acorns, seeds and unmentionables, which blew a 30 foot diameter area around the unit when i fired it up! I did find where they ate trhy the intake hoses between the air filter and the carb, and seeds and crap were everywhere.
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  #11  
Old 08-12-2019, 08:00:28 PM
Caseck Caseck is offline
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Default Re: Kruz and Root starting procedure

Wow that must have been quite the surprise when random stuff comes shooting out of your generator. I stuck a shop vac down the exhaust until it hit the baffles inside the muffler. Didnít pull anything out surprisingly. I also pulled the oil bath air cleaner off and that was all good but I will definitely double check all the piping in between. Donít want flammable squirrel stashed things inside a hot exhaust. I didnít get to try firing the generator up today. There was a bunch of junk piled on the one side of it so I figured I should clear that, I also put the battery terminals together and checked to make sure there was no water in the fuel. For 20 year old diesel it is surprisingly clean, I pumped off of the bottom of the tank and you can see it in the pic below. Anyway it got late and didnít get a chance to try starting it. Tomorrow morning Iíll throw the batteries in and hit the start switch and see what happens. Keep you all posted, thanks for the help.
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Old 08-13-2019, 08:19:01 PM
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Default Re: Kruz and Root starting procedure

Hi everyone,
Attempted starting the generator today. Did not go as planned and would not crank over but did make an odd noise. I took a video that you can hear it in. Iíll put the link to the video below:

https://youtu.be/ub9YXWCBa1o
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  #13  
Old 08-14-2019, 07:57:56 AM
I like oldstuff I like oldstuff is offline
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Default Re: Kruz and Root starting procedure

That noise is a fuel pump that's running dry.
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Old 08-14-2019, 09:59:00 AM
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Default Re: Kruz and Root starting procedure

Quote:
Originally Posted by I like oldstuff View Post
That noise is a fuel pump that's running dry.
Thatís what I initially thought but then I got paranoid. Iíll take a look, maybe there is a manual lift pump somewhere on the motor I can help get fuel pushed up to the injectors. There is basically a full tank of diesel in the generator. Itís got to be about 50 gallons. I just figured it would prime itself relatively easy.
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Old 08-14-2019, 04:01:07 PM
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Default Re: Kruz and Root starting procedure

Hello Everyone,

So tried starting the generator again today. Had some success in that I was able to get fuel up to the injectors. So now the fuel pump doesnít sound terrible. No luck on starting though. I realized in my attempt that there is a ďstarter handleĒ on the control panel which engages a switch on the starter when pulled. I pulled that handle while having the ďengine runĒ toggle switched on and the ďstartĒ toggle switched on. I must have tried all combinations. I have yet to get the engine to crank over. It is free as I spun it a full rotation. Any ideas what Iím doing wrong or what might be broken?
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Old 08-14-2019, 05:27:02 PM
25Eagle34 25Eagle34 is offline
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Default Re: Kruz and Root starting procedure

Did you try giving it a shot of starting fluid?
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Old 08-14-2019, 06:03:43 PM
Rich Mc Rich Mc is offline
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Default Re: Kruz and Root starting procedure

Does your throttle knob need to be hard out to allow starting and full in to stop?
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Old 08-14-2019, 06:23:22 PM
Caseck Caseck is offline
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Default Re: Kruz and Root starting procedure

Quote:
Originally Posted by 25Eagle34 View Post
Did you try giving it a shot of starting fluid?
I do have some but itís not even cranking over to do anything. I can hear the starter solenoid engage when I pull that starter handle back. When the batteries arenít hooked up I donít hear the click of the solenoid so I know itís getting power.

---------- Post added at 06:23:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:18:51 PM ----------

That’s a good thought, maybe there is some sort of setting on the throttle. I’ll have to check. Although I would think it would still crank over and just not fire up.
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Old 08-14-2019, 06:35:52 PM
J.B. Castagnos J.B. Castagnos is offline
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Default Re: Kruz and Root starting procedure

That starting handle has to be pulled hard, especially if there's corrosion on the contacts. Give it a good jerk all the way out several times. If nothing happens get a test light, ground to the block and check the battery cable at the starter, it should light. Have someone pull the start lever while the light is on, if it goes off it's a connection problem, if it stays lit it's a switch-starter problem.
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Old 08-14-2019, 07:31:40 PM
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Default Re: Kruz and Root starting procedure

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Originally Posted by J.B. Castagnos View Post
That starting handle has to be pulled hard, especially if there's corrosion on the contacts. Give it a good jerk all the way out several times. If nothing happens get a test light, ground to the block and check the battery cable at the starter, it should light. Have someone pull the start lever while the light is on, if it goes off it's a connection problem, if it stays lit it's a switch-starter problem.
Thanks, I was pulling it slowly and not very hard. Iíll also try that test light idea tomorrow. I feel like itís getting closer and closer to starting, canít wait to hear this thing roar to life. Below is a video of me trying to start it earlier today with the fuel pump primed and then me slowly pulling that handle. You can see the contact on the starter moving if you look close. Thanks for all the help guys!

https://youtu.be/_Uq8WxtJDO0
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