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Sacrificial Onan 4.0 BFA - A JohnnyC Executive Decision


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  #21  
Old 07-22-2016, 10:08:50 PM
JohnnyC JohnnyC is offline
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Default Re: Sacrificial Onan 4.0 BFA - A JohnnyC Executive Decision

Today I drilled and tapped and in some cases installed helicoils into bolt holes that had broken off bolts. The pictures below shows inserting a helicoil into the head where the head's cooling tins lower bolt hole is mounted to. Since the head is aluminum it is not recommended to use a steel helicoil, but a special helicoil as seen in the picture which is made specifically for aluminum.

JohnnyC
New Jersey
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  #22  
Old 07-23-2016, 10:09:06 AM
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Default Re: Sacrificial Onan 4.0 BFA - A JohnnyC Executive Decision

http://milwaukee.craigslist.org/hvo/5692857648.html

Johnny, think what you could do with a whole pallet of these chumperators. The mind boggles at all the test criteria and abuse that could be dealt to these turds. Heck I'd almost be willing to drive the load out to you just for grins. It's only 885 miles each way.
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  #23  
Old 07-23-2016, 10:43:12 AM
Kevin K Kevin K is offline
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Default Re: Sacrificial Onan 4.0 BFA - A JohnnyC Executive Decision

The ad says: "All generators are in like new working order."

Can I take that statement with a grain of salt? Looks like a bunch of returns someone fixed up. Fifteen of them for $2,000 so he wants about $134 each. Good luck on that.
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  #24  
Old 07-23-2016, 10:58:16 AM
Tracy T Tracy T is offline
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Default Re: Sacrificial Onan 4.0 BFA - A JohnnyC Executive Decision

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Originally Posted by Kevin K View Post
so he wants about $134 each. Good luck on that.
For those not in the know, that would seem like the deal of a lifetime. I guess that's where the saying theirs a sucker born every minute came from.
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  #25  
Old 07-23-2016, 11:16:51 AM
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Default Re: Sacrificial Onan 4.0 BFA - A JohnnyC Executive Decision

I'd bet he'd take a grand for the lot.
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  #26  
Old 07-23-2016, 11:36:22 AM
Kevin K Kevin K is offline
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Default Re: Sacrificial Onan 4.0 BFA - A JohnnyC Executive Decision

A number of years ago, a friend was a manager of a hardware store. These are the instructions he was given by corporate for dealing with returned generators:

In the case of a brand name generator like Honda: Check it over to determine if there is a problem. If so, give the customer a new one and ship the defective generator back to the warehouse for replacement.

In the case of a Chinese generator: Offer the customer a choice of replacement or refund. Don't even waste time looking at it. Drain any gas and oil, and throw it in the dumpster. We will replace it.

What's that tell you? They just accepted that there would be out of the box failures, with quality control by consumer.
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Old 07-23-2016, 01:01:09 PM
yellowlister yellowlister is offline
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Default Re: Sacrificial Onan 4.0 BFA - A JohnnyC Executive Decision

you have to wonder what something like that costs to make.. someone once told me it's under 50 per unit.. the horror freight 4kw units.. selling at 399 on sale..
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  #28  
Old 07-23-2016, 01:22:25 PM
len k len k is offline
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Default Re: Sacrificial Onan 4.0 BFA - A JohnnyC Executive Decision

Got to figure 100% mark up for the retailer. Then some for his wholesaler supplier, then there's shipping
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  #29  
Old 07-23-2016, 05:03:17 PM
JohnnyC JohnnyC is offline
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Default Re: Sacrificial Onan 4.0 BFA - A JohnnyC Executive Decision

I had a good laugh when I seen the stack of Chumpions. Thanks for posting it. I estimate that entire batch of ?12? Chumpions may last at most 15 days under FULL load.

As I mentioned several days ago, I would be posting some to the rusted sheet metal tins that I need to replace which I will explain for each picture below.

Picture #1) This is the base that the RV genset's rubber isolators mount to. I'm NOT replacing this, but I wanted to show how the effects of the North East rust belt. The base is heavy gauge metal and is rust through in several spots which one of the pots I circled.

Picture #2) This picture shows most of the bolt on tins. Some are rusted through, or badly pitted with rust and without doubt need replacing.

Picture #3) This picture shows the exhaust manifold. It was brazed in the past and very poorly done. I assume it rusted through and the repair was to fix it. I need a new or a used (but in excellent condition) exhaust manifold.

Picture #4) This is holding up my Onan work. I had a partial roof collapse which I repaired and now re-roofing the shingles. It is near 100 degrees today and I'm out there in the heat doing this crap. I think my brain is now baked. I hope to get 90% done by sun down and finish by late morning on Sunday.

Soooooooooooo, I need sheet metal and an exhaust manifold for my 4.0 BFA. If anyone out here has spare sheet metal and / or an exhaust manifold in excellent condition and is willing to sell, please send me a private message.

Thanks!
JohnnyC
New Jersey
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  #30  
Old 07-23-2016, 06:34:39 PM
squidtrap squidtrap is offline
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Default Re: Sacrificial Onan 4.0 BFA - A JohnnyC Executive Decision

JohnnyC- you are lucky, we have some torrential storms moving through down here. Looks like it is all staying south so your roof job will be dry.

BTW, no way would you find me up there in this heat. gave up any and ALL roof jobs years ago. good luck.
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  #31  
Old 07-23-2016, 09:29:46 PM
JohnnyC JohnnyC is offline
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Default Re: Sacrificial Onan 4.0 BFA - A JohnnyC Executive Decision

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Originally Posted by squidtrap View Post
JohnnyC- you are lucky, we have some torrential storms moving through down here. Looks like it is all staying south so your roof job will be dry.

BTW, no way would you find me up there in this heat. gave up any and ALL roof jobs years ago. good luck.
You guys down in South Jersey and lower Central Jersey seem to be getting hit hard by storms over the past month or two. Today, it was just horribly hot in North Jersey. I had to stop work at about 11:30 am. It got so hot on the roof that the shingles were getting hard to work with. I picked up at about 3:30 pm when temps were at 94 F in the shade and worked until about 8 pm. I finished all the shingles, but still have other roof work and need to re-hang the gutter. I hope to get all that done with the exception of the gutter. The weather forecast says it will be hotter tomorrow. Knowing my luck, something is going to happen which will require me to crawl into my attic to fix. Been there in the past where temps exceeded 130 degrees F in the attic.

I wish we had a big storm come through and knock out power for 6 or 12 hours. It would be a great excuse to fire up the Onan(s) and my tenants will appreciate it knowing that they are spending this weekend next to their air conditioners while the landlord (me) is playing on the garage roof.

JohnnyC
New Jersey
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  #32  
Old 07-24-2016, 06:12:28 PM
squidtrap squidtrap is offline
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Default Re: Sacrificial Onan 4.0 BFA - A JohnnyC Executive Decision

JohnnyC- when i was a licensed builder we would start roofing, (quietly) at first light, and come down by like 11:00, depending on heat and shingle color. go to the bar and go back up like 3:00 or so (once again depending on sun, trees, etc) and work till dark. An old couch cushion w/ material off is your best friend, sticks right to an 8 pitch like glue, and no more strawberries on azz!!!!!!!!!!!) in the heat white shingles stink in the heat, granules come off and you have black spots everywhere. Looks great in pics, better u than me.

As far as the gen. last week i flipped my main and ran on gen power for about an hour with the cck and the NH. Still hesitant to run the air, its borderline maxing out, and cant be by gen and panel at the same time, got to build the famous JohnieC box, all the stuff is here but to busy to play with the toys.

Anyhow, keep up the good work as usual, also the tenants should PAY a SUPER high premium, to be hooked up to gen power, that is an EXCEPTIONAL landlord to provide a service like that, take care ED.
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Old 07-24-2016, 07:56:46 PM
Newoldstock Newoldstock is offline
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Default Re: Sacrificial Onan 4.0 BFA - A JohnnyC Executive Decision

What is the famous JohnieC box?

If you purchase a few open face relays like this.
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Square-D-...7V20/202495853
You can make yourself a dandy little automatic transfer switch for critical loads ( and this is a very reliable relay for this ).
You will need some decent circuit protection in series on your gen side for each branch you have in your auto transfer box.


Also worth a mention:
These will pick up at 24vDC some are labeled as such and some are not( if rated for 120Vac, and they will hold once pulled in as low as 12 vdc if you are in conservation mode with limited DC available )
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  #34  
Old 07-24-2016, 08:31:12 PM
Vanman Vanman is offline
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Default Re: Sacrificial Onan 4.0 BFA - A JohnnyC Executive Decision

How interesting that they should have those at Home Depot. I used to buy those and the many variants, through Grainger. They are made in China, but seem to be well made. That sounds like an oxymoron if I ever heard one.

They can be had with a variety of different coil voltages. True enough that an AC coil operates at around 20% power factor and as such will operate the same on 1/5 voltage DC.

Personally, for transfer switch design, I like to use relays that are double throw, either to switch the load directly, or, even better, to serve as an electrical interlock to the relays or contactors doing the switching.

Ie a normally closed contact must make in one contactor before control current can direct the other contactor to close, and vise versa.
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  #35  
Old 07-24-2016, 09:43:01 PM
Newoldstock Newoldstock is offline
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Default Re: Sacrificial Onan 4.0 BFA - A JohnnyC Executive Decision

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vanman View Post
How interesting that they should have those at Home Depot. I used to buy those and the many variants, through Grainger. They are made in China, but seem to be well made. That sounds like an oxymoron if I ever heard one.

They can be had with a variety of different coil voltages. True enough that an AC coil operates at around 20% power factor and as such will operate the same on 1/5 voltage DC.

Personally, for transfer switch design, I like to use relays that are double throw, either to switch the load directly, or, even better, to serve as an electrical interlock to the relays or contactors doing the switching.

Ie a normally closed contact must make in one contactor before control current can direct the other contactor to close, and vise versa.
Correct on all counts!
I goofed and posted a link to a random relay not realizing it was single pole, thank you for correcting me....

There are lots of places you could get three phase contactors to do the same thing ( there are some very small IEC units already mechanically interlocked for forward reverse applications that would do the same thing ).

Decent quality made in China, such a thing does exist.
Everything is made in China now and you have little choice. ( until its made in India because the day labour is cheaper than China ).

In my daily routine I pass an open bus MCC full of electrical parts made by CCL.
These are throw backs to the 25 cycle era ( with 60hz coils ), so they are big and brutish things that never need service ( may burn a coil or need a rub with silver stick but that's about it ).
Ever piece was made in Canada, even steel was made in Canada.
EVERY bit of them was made under one roof.
I watched it all start to got to hell in the 80s.
Well in the case of CCL it started in the 70s with the take over by Sylvania ( you think Cummins did a number on Onan??? same happened to my favourite brand of electrical apparatus.. )
One of free trades first victims up here.
Now both companies are no more.

But if you source your parts from the four corners of the earth at the lowest bidder then you can blame the other guy for why your product is junk.
If you gobble up all your competitors you don't have to worry if your product is junk because your customers have no choice.

Schneider, ABB, Rockwell, Siemens.
What was once an industry with hundreds of companies competing with each other is now reduced mainly to these guys and non of their stuff really impresses me any.
Built cheap but it sure is not cheap to buy no expense is too small to cut a corner.

End rant.....
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  #36  
Old 07-24-2016, 09:56:27 PM
JohnnyC JohnnyC is offline
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Default Re: Sacrificial Onan 4.0 BFA - A JohnnyC Executive Decision

Quote:
Originally Posted by squidtrap View Post
JohnnyC- when i was a licensed builder we would start roofing, (quietly) at first light, and come down by like 11:00, depending on heat and shingle color. go to the bar and go back up like 3:00 or so (once again depending on sun, trees, etc) and work till dark. An old couch cushion w/ material off is your best friend, sticks right to an 8 pitch like glue, and no more strawberries on azz!!!!!!!!!!!) in the heat white shingles stink in the heat, granules come off and you have black spots everywhere. Looks great in pics, better u than me.

As far as the gen. last week i flipped my main and ran on gen power for about an hour with the cck and the NH. Still hesitant to run the air, its borderline maxing out, and cant be by gen and panel at the same time, got to build the famous JohnieC box, all the stuff is here but to busy to play with the toys.

Anyhow, keep up the good work as usual, also the tenants should PAY a SUPER high premium, to be hooked up to gen power, that is an EXCEPTIONAL landlord to provide a service like that, take care ED.
When the Pros did my roof on the house, they used couch foam rubber cushions for the same as you mentioned. My house has a very steep pitch. My garage extension roof only has a slight pitch and easy to work on. As you mentioned I noticed in the 95+ degree heat that the white granules come off and you have black spots if you step on the shingle and pivot your foot and was another primary reason for stopping before mid day yesterday and resuming later in the afternoon. I did not do much today since I has to help the "boss" with her projects, but I only need to do some trim work to complete my roof job.

If I still had my 15.0 JC, I would have mounted it under the roof that I fixed. There is plenty of roof, a perfect raised (6") concrete floor and now it should be dry, but instead I keep my lawn mowers and lawn maintenance tools under the roof.

Moving forward, this week I plan to reinstall the head on my 4.0 BFA and separating the oil pan base from the engine block as well as making up a parts list for things to order.

JohnnyC
New Jersey

p.s. - It was another hot day today, but NO power outages or storms
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  #37  
Old 07-26-2016, 09:29:53 PM
JohnnyC JohnnyC is offline
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Default Re: Sacrificial Onan 4.0 BFA - A JohnnyC Executive Decision

Today, I spent some time hanging out with my BFA this evening.

My goal for today was to hoist up the BFA, remove the oil base pan cover, assess the condition of the inside of the motor, the crud at the bottom of the oil pan and separate the oil pan base from the motor so I can replace the gasket. I will explain what I did for each of the following pictures below.

Picture #1) I needed a way to have full access to the oil base pan cover as well as the oil pan base. The engine hoist worked perfectly using a set of towing J hooks.

Picture #2) This picture shows the condition of the inside of the oil pan base cover (zero sludge) and a peek into the inside of the motor. All looks well and no strange metal pieces were found inside the motor. One thing that looks funny in this picture is the oil pan base cover --- The brown spots look like rust as if water was inside the motor. The strange thing is I only can see this in the camera's picture which used flash. If you viewed the pan cover by eye, these spots are not brown, are not rust spots, but are light gray.

Picture #3) This picture is a close up of inside the motor after removing the oil pan base. Not too bad.

Picture #4) This picture shows the oil pan base after separating it from the motor. I plan to replace ALL gaskets since the thing leaked like an old Harley and now is the time since I am going through the entire genset.

Attention: Mr Onanparts.com - I hope you got all the gaskets in stock. I will be placing an order within two weeks.

That's all folks for tonight!

JohnnyC
New Jersey

p.s. - I think one of the main oil leaks was from the oil filter adapter. The lower bolt was only finger tight and I remember someone mentioned it is a common oil leak issue with the adapter bolt(s) coming lose.
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  #38  
Old 07-27-2016, 01:03:56 AM
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Default Re: Sacrificial Onan 4.0 BFA - A JohnnyC Executive Decision

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyC View Post
Today, I spent some time hanging out with my BFA this evening.

Attention: Mr Onanparts.com - I hope you got all the gaskets in stock. I will be placing an order within two weeks.

You rang?

That's all folks for tonight!

JohnnyC
New Jersey

p.s. - I think one of the main oil leaks was from the oil filter adapter. The lower bolt was only finger tight and I remember someone mentioned it is a common oil leak issue with the adapter bolt(s) coming lose.
I think Mr. BFA has shown it not only deserves fresh gaskets and seals but a proper overhaul. From the looks of the internals it won't need a rebuild. Top end job while it's apart. Rings and a valve grind.

For the filter adapter bolts I use this stuff on the threads:
https://www.permatex.com/products/ga...ealant-liquid/

Nothing on the adapter gasket. Just the bolt threads and the copper washers too. This is the pan gasket you want.
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  #39  
Old 07-27-2016, 06:02:03 AM
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Default Re: Sacrificial Onan 4.0 BFA - A JohnnyC Executive Decision

Onanparts, the only unused gasket I current have is the oil pan cover gasket that I got from you on my last order fro the BFA. I never replaced it yet. I have an extra the timing cover crank seal from my 6.5NH project. I have to check to see if it is the same part for the 4.0 BFA. I want to rebuild the Walbro carburetor too (I am currently using the Nikki from a different motor).

If I was to go as far as new rings and a valve grind, I'd bore the cylinders or at least hone the cylinders and put all new bearings in it too. I'm not sure if I want to go that far with it since it is a 120 vac genset and runs perfectly as it is, but last time you convinced me to do all the neat mods to my 6.5NH such as electronic ignition, upgraded 12 vdc charging system among other things since I had the T260G donor motor to pick from. Let's see what happens with the 4.0 BFA.

Thanks!
JohnnyC
New Jersey
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  #40  
Old 07-27-2016, 09:21:07 AM
Birken Vogt Birken Vogt is offline
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Default Re: Sacrificial Onan 4.0 BFA - A JohnnyC Executive Decision

Rings and hone are always on my list, because many engines can have a nice looking crosshatch and still be sloppy oil burners.
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