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Onan 7.5 JB's Recovery Towards A New Life


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  #21  
Old 01-15-2017, 01:16:50 AM
Steve Dawkins Steve Dawkins is offline
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Default Re: My 7.5 JB's Recovery Towards A New Life

Post 1, photo 4 is the review stamp from the professional engineering firm that designed the specifications for the construction project (school) where this generator was installed. The stamp indicates that the submittals for the generator met the intent of the specifications, and were thus approved.

The digital timer in the transfer switch is the exercise clock for the generator. It can be programmed to start and run the generator on a specific day, time and duration during a week. Typically, the exercise time is 30 minutes per week.
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Old 01-15-2017, 01:22:48 AM
JohnnyC JohnnyC is online now
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Default Re: My 7.5 JB's Recovery Towards A New Life

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Originally Posted by yellowlister View Post
Did you get the muffler too? It's 12 wire right?
I am 99.99999999999999% sure it is a 12 lead. I seen the large group of wires from the gen head going into the meter box. I will open the meter box tomorrow to verify.

In the pack of documentation I discovered that my JB replaced an older JB from 1984 which is the 4-R model. It is amazing reading all the documentation and I'm trying to sort it all out. I got test sheets from Onan, blueprints, quotes, approval papers, manuals, site plans, the whole nine yards and more. I will be up to 4 am reading this stuff.

I can now understand what the Pro Onan planners/sales people and installers went through to do a professional installation. This stuff looks serious, not a quick 1 hour install and run away type of job.

JohnnyC
New Jersey

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Dawkins View Post
Post 1, photo 4 is the review stamp from the professional engineering firm that designed the specifications for the construction project (school) where this generator was installed. The stamp indicates that the submittals for the generator met the intent of the specifications, and were thus approved.

The digital timer in the transfer switch is the exercise clock for the generator. It can be programmed to start and run the generator on a specific day, time and duration during a week. Typically, the exercise time is 30 minutes per week.
Thanks. By the way I found the papers that have the specs on the timer and how to program it.

JohnnyC
New Jersey

Last edited by JohnnyC; 01-15-2017 at 01:44:57 AM.
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  #23  
Old 01-15-2017, 01:40:17 AM
JohnnyC JohnnyC is online now
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Default Re: My 7.5 JB's Recovery Towards A New Life

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Originally Posted by MBB View Post
Johnny do us a favor and check the twinslan site and see if all the documentation you received is listed. If not could you scan it and post it or send it to one of us to do it for you. We will send it back.

Regarding the units from Toledo Jim mentioned the units at least mine still had points so I can use either one. The electronic ignition was an add on. I posted a picture when I first got my units we had never seen them prior. These units were from airports all over the country at least that's what I was told. I'm not implying yours was from there just filling you in. Look on the gen side and see if you see the Electronic ignition on the back outside.
MBB,
I will go through my newly acquired documents and hopefully I have something to add. I believe someone mentioned in a different thread there was no manual for my JB. I have the originals that came with my JB.
1) Onan Operator's Manual JB&JC GenSets 967-0120 6-89
2) Onan Parts Manual JB GenSet 967-0223 9-89 (spec A-AD) Repalces 6-83 (spec A-AD)

If you want Onan transfer switch manuals, I have the following:
1) Onan Operator's Manual LT II Switch Starting Spec G 913-0101 4-86
2) Onan Parts Manual LT Transfer Switches LT II / LT 26K 913-0201 5-87 (spec G-H) replaces 7-85 (spec G)

If you can verify if these exist or not that would be good, if not I will check either tomorrow on early in the week.

I got CADD system drawings, Industrial Product Test Records, Instruction sheets for the Overspeed cutoff switch for the J-series gensets, Onan battery spec sheets, all kinds of neat things.


I am currently surrounded in circle of 360 degrees in papers. I need a beer....

Regarding the electronic ignition module, I will look tomorrow during daylight. I was overwhelmed this evening between the long trip, snow and cold, but I did notice a strange black wire that led up to either the control box or the area were the coil is located. It look to be professionally installed the way it was routed, but nothing that I've seen on my ex-15.0JC. If this does have the special electronic ignition (which I seen no indication of in the documentation) how do you switch between electronic ignition and points if that is what you have?


JohnnyC
New Jersey
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Last edited by JohnnyC; 01-15-2017 at 01:51:18 AM.
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  #24  
Old 01-15-2017, 09:34:07 AM
MBB MBB is offline
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Default Re: My 7.5 JB's Recovery Towards A New Life

Johnny it appears I have all the manuals. The transfer switch one I have isnt great but is readable. The other documentation would be great to put in the library.

Here is a picture of the electronic ignition. I guess its under the wrapper on the end. The 2 wires go up to where the points are and by switching the wires you can use the points or electronic ignition. I was going to hook up a switch but I dont think I did.

https://www.smokstak.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90095
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Old 01-15-2017, 09:53:23 AM
JohnnyC JohnnyC is online now
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Default Re: My 7.5 JB's Recovery Towards A New Life

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Originally Posted by MBB View Post
Johnny it appears I have all the manuals. The transfer switch one I have isnt great but is readable. The other documentation would be great to put in the library.

Here is a picture of the electronic ignition. I guess its under the wrapper on the end. The 2 wires go up to where the points are and by switching the wires you can use the points or electronic ignition. I was going to hook up a switch but I dont think I did.

https://www.smokstak.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90095
Interesting!! I will check it out this morning. It would be great if this had the secrete option, but I could not be so lucky. The weird black wire that I mentioned is run in the same general area, but it is only one wire, not two. Maybe I did not look hard enough. One thing for certain, my JB is using the points (100% sure) because it would not start due to no spark. Once I cleaned the points contacts, the JB came to life. I just read the thread on the special electronic ignition and as I sit here drinking my morning pot of coffee, I want to get my azz out to the garage and remove the bell end cover.

The switch manuals that I got are in mint condition as are the manuals for the JB. As for the other Onan paper work once I get it sorted out I will contact you and you can tell me if you want a copy or not for the library.

After reading other Onan documentation I am truly amazed as to what goes into planning, testing and implementing a professional installation and maybe other folks would like to see the documents too. Obviously the former Onan professionals on this may have seen it all and it may bring back nightmares from the days they were involved in similar activities.

JohnnyC
New Jersey

Last edited by JohnnyC; 01-15-2017 at 10:03:50 AM.
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  #26  
Old 01-15-2017, 04:01:53 PM
JohnnyC JohnnyC is online now
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Default Re: My 7.5 JB's Recovery Towards A New Life

MBB, I checked for the electronic ignition components under the generator bell cover and to my disappointment there was none. However, the over speed component is attached to the end shaft and the strange black wire that I mentioned earlier that followed the same general path are the two wires for the electronic ignition does as seen in the picture from the thread your posted, it was for the over speed option.

JohnnyC
New Jersey
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  #27  
Old 01-15-2017, 04:30:43 PM
len k len k is online now
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Default Re: My 7.5 JB's Recovery Towards A New Life

Looks in the right spot for over speed switch. I remember Leon talking about his. Some sort of centrifugal force magnet trip. Have to manually reset it once tripped, think that required engine to be stopped.
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Old 01-15-2017, 05:16:49 PM
MBB MBB is offline
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Default Re: My 7.5 JB's Recovery Towards A New Life

To bad Johnny. It is however a simple retro fit. It uses the standard electronic ignition module and trigger used on all other models.
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  #29  
Old 01-15-2017, 05:23:36 PM
JohnnyC JohnnyC is online now
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Default Re: My 7.5 JB's Recovery Towards A New Life

JohnnyC was in rehab / therapy all day today. Yup, my garage playing with my new toy! What a better way to spend a Sunday afternoon away from everyone. I feel super good after my therapy session. Without therapy I go crazy and insane .

So, what did I do in therapy today:shrug:?
I went over my new toy to assess its condition. I hooked up 2 bottles of propane and fired it up. Initially, I did not have a muffler it is was ear splitting loud. I ended up using a Honda stainless steel resonator as a muffler and it really did the job!

All initial testing show the JB to be in good working condition, but I did not do a load test yet. It is currently set up for 120/208 3 phase and I want to reconnect it for 240 single phase.

I uploaded a video to YouTube on today's test. You can hear it run and see it as it is for now. In the video you will notice several tins missing. Don't panic, I got them. I removed the generator bell cover, air cleaner housing and the points cover.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5Rx...ature=youtu.be

I will upload some pictures later.

JohnnyC
New Jersey
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Old 01-15-2017, 05:27:34 PM
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Default Re: My 7.5 JB's Recovery Towards A New Life

Quote:
Originally Posted by len k View Post
Looks in the right spot for over speed switch. I remember Leon talking about his. Some sort of centrifugal force magnet trip. Have to manually reset it once tripped, think that required engine to be stopped.
Yup! Gotta watch that OSKO, Over Speed Kut Off switch! Magnet holds it closed below about 2200 RPM. It opens between 2250-2300RPM. Have to remove end cover to reset.



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Old 01-15-2017, 05:47:24 PM
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Default Re: My 7.5 JB's Recovery Towards A New Life

Here is the parts list for your unit. See this thread post #9
www.smokstak.com/forum/showthread.php?t=144431
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Old 01-15-2017, 06:49:22 PM
Leon N. Leon N. is offline
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Default Re: My 7.5 JB's Recovery Towards A New Life

Once it reaches about 2200 RPM, the over speed switch latches and grounds the ignition system. Only way to restart is to manually remove the ground by pulling the magnet of the grounding contact in the generator end bell housing.
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Old 01-15-2017, 06:51:16 PM
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Default Re: My 7.5 JB's Recovery Towards A New Life

Really clean looking machine Johnnyc. Ya did good! It will serve you for many years.
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Old 01-15-2017, 08:52:58 PM
Leon N. Leon N. is offline
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Default Re: My 7.5 JB's Recovery Towards A New Life

Looking at the model number of the specific JB in this thread it appears the Onan Corp got away from or deviated from the model identification which indicated special parts list for Pennsylvania approved plants. At least the specific PA parts were identified in the JB owners manual, 967-320, page 49-52 which was pertinent to the mid 1960's models.

Note, on this plant the oil drain pipe is excessively long and the rubber support cushions are missing.
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  #35  
Old 01-15-2017, 09:36:41 PM
JohnnyC JohnnyC is online now
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Default Re: My 7.5 JB's Recovery Towards A New Life

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Originally Posted by Leon N. View Post
Looking at the model number of the specific JB in this thread it appears the Onan Corp got away from or deviated from the model identification which indicated special parts list for Pennsylvania approved plants. At least the specific PA parts were identified in the JB owners manual, 967-320, page 49-52 which was pertinent to the mid 1960's models.

Note, on this plant the oil drain pipe is excessively long and the rubber support cushions are missing.
Hi Leon, I have the rubber vibration insulator feet. The JB is temporarily resting on the cart you see in the video and pictures. It will remain on the temporary cart until I am done servicing the JB which may include a complete tune up and possibly a complete paint job which means a tear down. Afterwards, it will be mounted on a custom made cart as I always did in the past. To many here, the exterior of JB looks good cosmetically, but it has its road rashes and chipped paint, but not too bad and can easily be put into service the way it is. Under the tins, it is like new. Since I have the tools and space to the job and make it look new, I may go that route. For now, I am spending time assessing the JB before I do anything else.

JohnnyC
New Jersey

---------- Post added at 08:36:41 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:23:41 PM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by MBB View Post
To bad Johnny. It is however a simple retro fit. It uses the standard electronic ignition module and trigger used on all other models.
MBB, with the over speed cutoff, I don't think the module and ring will fit correctly. I am very familiar with how it all works and converted my 6.5NH points generator to the same type of electronic ignition from parts I salvaged from a T260G Onan motor. I rigged up a switch to flip back and forth between points and electronic ignition and works very well. I'd rather have electronic ignition that the over speed cutoff option....

Anyway, thanks for the information. Very interesting.

JohnnyC
New Jersey
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  #36  
Old 01-15-2017, 09:54:07 PM
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Default Re: My 7.5 JB's Recovery Towards A New Life

After my daytime therapy in the garage I promised more pictures (attached below) on my activities .
Picture #1) I removed the rat's nest of wires that were in the control box. Looks a lot cleaner now.The wires that were removed were used to connect the JB to the transfer switch. Since I have no interest in the transfer switch, why keep the wires? If I change my mind, I can easily rewire it. It is amazing those little rat/mice rodents never moved into the control box and I will eventually seal the gaps in the rectangular hole in the rear corner where they rodents enter.

Picture #2) Yellowlister asked me if I had a 12 wire reconnectable model. It is. Funny thing is in the picture I only count 11 lead wires, but trust me, there are 12. It is currently wired in a Parallel Wye configuration for 120/240 ac 3 phase. I will rewire it to a Double Delta configuration for 120/240 single phase.

Picture #3) Len asked how the meters were wired. Well here it is. If you look at the lower row of meters in the picture you will see black, red and blue wires by themselves on the meter terminal studs. These meters are the amp meters for each leg.

Picture #4) This shows the front of the meter panel. It is dirty from road salt from yesterday's journey from lower Pa to North NJ in a snow storm (yes, we had snow falling for the entire 130 mile trip back). The JB was covered on plastic, but the snow and salt only got the meter panel.

JohnnyC
New Jersey
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  #37  
Old 01-15-2017, 11:38:11 PM
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Default Re: My 7.5 JB's Recovery Towards A New Life

Surprised that the control for your set, being a PA. spec, doesn't have an enclosed run relay. The JB that I found a year ago from a California college has the 8 pin enclosed relay.
Johnny, What's with the BLUE, "Property of BMW N.A." part totes in your video?
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Old 01-16-2017, 07:21:56 AM
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Default Re: My 7.5 JB's Recovery Towards A New Life

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Surprised that the control for your set, being a PA. spec, doesn't have an enclosed run relay. The JB that I found a year ago from a California college has the 8 pin enclosed relay.
Johnny, What's with the BLUE, "Property of BMW N.A." part totes in your video?
The blue parts totes are blue parts totes. I work for a large BMW dealership in the parts and service department. Once in a while I'll use my vehicle to transport parts and the totes come handy for small parts that otherwise would get lost in the back of the vehicle. These totes were removed from my vehicle to make room for the transfer switch from Saturday's journey to Pa. Today they go back.

JohnnyC
New Jersey
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Old 01-16-2017, 10:14:36 AM
Jim Marcozzi Jim Marcozzi is offline
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Default Re: My 7.5 JB's Recovery Towards A New Life

Just a little FYI:
3 years ago, about 120 JBs were removed service from West Penn Power tower and other sites. They were "scrapped", but I know that bunch of them made it out of salvage. Many were tri-fueled, but ran strictly on propane. Most had the sealed "marine" regulator.
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Old 01-16-2017, 11:15:03 AM
Leon N. Leon N. is offline
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Default Re: My 7.5 JB's Recovery Towards A New Life

Jim, what is a sealed marine regulator?
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