Generators and Motors
[Home] - [HELP] - [Forums] - [Library] - [Photo Gallery] - [Groups] - [Classified Ads] - [Subscribe] - [Links] - [Books] - [Sponsors] -

Go Back   SmokStak > SmokStak® Vintage Electrical Equipment > Generators & Motors General Discussion > Onan Generators
Forgot Password? Join Us!

Notices

Onan Generators Restoring, operating and maintaining vintage Onan generators.

Onan Generators

Printed Circuit Boards


this thread has 42 replies and has been viewed 1309 times

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 04-07-2017, 09:03:59 PM
b7100 b7100 is online now
Registered-I
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: hastings, michigan
Posts: 281
Thanks: 105
Thanked 406 Times in 156 Posts
Default Printed Circuit Boards

This thread can apply to anything that has a pc board whether it is a onan generator, garage door opener or whatever. Several years ago I purchased a stair climber off craigs list in like new condition for $600. I used it for 6 months and it quit working. The state elevator laws require a liscenced installer/serviceman to work on them. The require a permit ($300) and inspection. Consequently nobody wants to repair or even sell you parts. After some testing of various switches and components I made a guess that it was a pc board. I finally found someone who would sell me one ($400). It worked for 6 mos then quit. Thinking I bought a dud I bought another one ($400). Again 6 mos it quit. The people that sold it to me said they could come out - remove it (for free) and install a new one for $4000. I got on line and found several companies that rebuilt pc boards. For $80 they would check it out. A week later I learned that there was a missing component causing the failiers. They replaced the component which could probably be purchased from digikey for $5 and charged me $160. Its been working for a year. I feel that I got ripped off for $800 by an industry aided by the state laws. The pc board business is a huge ripoff. $400 or more seems the norm to replace one. They can be repaired for much less. I hope what I have learned about pc boards can be of use to anyone that runs into the high cost of replacing them.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old 04-07-2017, 09:20:39 PM
Billy J Shafer's Avatar
Billy J Shafer Billy J Shafer is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Centerville, Texas
Posts: 16,226
Thanks: 8,263
Thanked 13,560 Times in 6,389 Posts
Default Re: Printed circuit boards

You need to check out Flight Systems. Very good company and they back their work. Plus you can talk to a real person. Not some guy somewhere in somewhere.
__________________
I don't talk to myself. This early in the morning. Why the hell should I talk to you.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Billy J Shafer For This Post:
  #3  
Old 04-07-2017, 09:41:44 PM
pegasuspinto pegasuspinto is offline
Registered-III
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Floyd, AR, USA
Posts: 2,517
Thanks: 319
Thanked 1,156 Times in 759 Posts
Default Re: Printed circuit boards

Probably a MOV, surge protector. Good electrical design engineers add surge protection, and then a bean counter removes it. Someone else with the same unit has never needed a board, and yours dies every 6 months, lol.

Don't forget that they had to fix the problem AND add the component. $140 is a pretty good price. Troubleshooting, repair, and improve a board that I bet they couldn't get a schematic on, is no small talent.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 04-07-2017, 09:58:13 PM
b7100 b7100 is online now
Registered-I
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: hastings, michigan
Posts: 281
Thanks: 105
Thanked 406 Times in 156 Posts
Default Re: Printed circuit boards

I obtained a wireing diagram which I furnished for thier use in diagnosing the pc board. For $160 I was very pleased with the results. The alternative would have been new $4000 stair climber. Getting up and down stairs is gtting very chalenging. It seems as though some people are out to take advantage of someone who has physical limitations for financial gain. It is frustrating.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 04-07-2017, 10:25:25 PM
Billy J Shafer's Avatar
Billy J Shafer Billy J Shafer is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Centerville, Texas
Posts: 16,226
Thanks: 8,263
Thanked 13,560 Times in 6,389 Posts
Default Re: Printed circuit boards

I know what you mean. I am looking for some leg braces. But I think I need a bank loan first. Or learn how to crawl.
__________________
I don't talk to myself. This early in the morning. Why the hell should I talk to you.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 04-07-2017, 10:40:59 PM
Big Bird Big Bird is online now
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Bradenton, Florida
Posts: 753
Thanks: 370
Thanked 689 Times in 332 Posts
Default Re: Printed circuit boards

B, it's not just the medical industry that sticks it to you...
I have a 2004 GMC Sierra pickup, the printed board in the instrument panel hasn't worked in 9 years.. the TAC reads 5000 rpm the speedo is stuck at 97 mph the oil pressure gauge sits at zero and the temp gauge never move's.
The only thing that does work it the odometer.
$300. To repair the damm thing, with no guarantee that it will last once you pull out of the parking lot...

Last edited by Big Bird; 04-08-2017 at 06:43:01 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 04-07-2017, 10:45:54 PM
slip knot slip knot is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Texas gulf coast
Posts: 903
Thanks: 489
Thanked 767 Times in 365 Posts
Default Re: Printed circuit boards

board repair is getting fairly common. I have a local electrical supplier that has a board repair service. I've had some Cutler Hammer soft starts repaired for @$200. I dropped the board off and 3-4 weeks later picked it repaired. CH had the board as NLA so I was happy to get it back up and running.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 04-07-2017, 11:18:51 PM
TLB01 TLB01 is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Seabeck, Washington
Posts: 268
Thanks: 32
Thanked 131 Times in 78 Posts
Default Re: Printed circuit boards

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Bird View Post
B, it's not just the medical that sticks it to you...
I have a 2004 GMC Sierra pickup, the printed board in the instrument panel hasn't worked in 9 years.. the TAC reads 7000 rpm the speedo is stuck at 97 mph the oil pressure gauge sits at zero and the temp gauge never move's.
The only thing that does work it the odometer.
$300. To repair the damm thing, with no guarantee that it will last once you pull out of the parking lot...
Might not be the board's fault. You live in a warm, muggy salty air place. Check your MOLEX connections under the hood. You might have a connector that, thanks to Florida's air, turned into galvanic action black goop. Once salt water gets into something like the plastic of a MOLEX in a muggy place it never dries out and it just wrecks havoc.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to TLB01 For This Post:
  #9  
Old 04-07-2017, 11:31:49 PM
b7100 b7100 is online now
Registered-I
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: hastings, michigan
Posts: 281
Thanks: 105
Thanked 406 Times in 156 Posts
Default Re: Printed circuit boards

Some pc boards are discontinued so having them repaired may be the only option.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 04-07-2017, 11:47:00 PM
BigBlockChev's Avatar
BigBlockChev BigBlockChev is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Coquitlam, BC, Canada
Posts: 1,800
Thanks: 311
Thanked 1,323 Times in 776 Posts
Default Re: Printed circuit boards

I just repaired a CMQD 7500 HDKAT. The Inverter was dead shorted control power, a replacement inverter goes for about $2K online. Cost $1.44 for a new MOV , , the Red gismo in the pic, exact same part which I soldered in, it was the only thing which showed signs of overheating but the generator was condemned without it . Control power was dead shorted by it, would blow the fuse instantly. Works fine now, I wonder how many other inverter gens were scrapped because of this simple part failure. I have also repaired Onan YD voltage regulators with a few components but found that since all the other components on the board were 25 yrs old too, failure was a frequent occurrence just in a different place. Cheers Dan
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0528.jpg
Views:	84
Size:	179.4 KB
ID:	279543  
__________________
It's always something simple.
One test is worth a thousand guesses.
If some is good and more is better then too much is just enough
Reply With Quote
The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to BigBlockChev For This Post:
  #11  
Old 04-08-2017, 12:24:15 AM
TLB01 TLB01 is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Seabeck, Washington
Posts: 268
Thanks: 32
Thanked 131 Times in 78 Posts
Default Re: Printed circuit boards

Well, it is good to see a good healthy cottage industry repairing these PCBs. They are much different from integrated circuits that really can't be salvaged. I just bought a YD end MDJC for "parts" and was amazed at how simple the regulator board was. If the YD end unit runs (Supposedly low hours set from a Hatteras that burned and it is definitely low hours from visual) ...well, its not parts anymore. Until then, it doesn't get a thread. Its a salvage yard rescue.

Thing is if you have a good soldering iron and a suction bulb with a bit of electrical acumen, you can save these old boards. The printed circuit paths are much more robust and less "busy" than what you see now.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to TLB01 For This Post:
  #12  
Old 04-08-2017, 12:38:25 AM
Archaeometrist Archaeometrist is offline
Registered-I
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Lakeland, Florida
Posts: 421
Thanks: 110
Thanked 191 Times in 117 Posts
Default Re: Printed circuit boards

I'm running into this stuff with a brain board out of my wife's 2007 Ford Taurus (that she inherited from her dad). It's gone out (two cylinders not firing - tested and it is the brain, as well as the already replaced coil pack) and I went to buy a replacement brain from a local parts house. They weren't too easy to talk with, and suddenly I was being told I had to buy the thing for over $350, and take it (with the old one) to the dealership to be programmed, otherwise it wouldn't run right - and pay the dealer to reprogram it (and there was a core charge too). I talked with a couple of mechanics I know, and they said that Ford would not program it - wouldn't even touch something from another company and that I would have to buy a new computer from them - and then they'd charge three or four times what I would pay for it at the parts house AND charge to program it. With the way the local parts store is, I probably would also have a lot of trouble returning the unused brain and getting a refund too. (They advised me to check out a couple of other parts dealers, and I did.)

I found another source which also will have the one they sell programmed, for only a little more than the parts house I'd originally gone to. Her car may be down for a couple of days, but we can live with that.

I'm hearing more and more about things like that - and people in the stores getting mad at me because I can fix things myself and don't want the service contracts and so on that they push on top of the prices they demand.

My wife said last week that she wished we could go back to the Model T, because at least it could be easily fixed by more ordinary people. I tend to agree - except I do appreciate new materials which last a lot longer and are more rugged. The prices they charge for brain boxes are outrageous - unjustified and unjustifiable. The way they treat customers who don't have money to throw away - even worse.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 04-08-2017, 12:39:40 AM
TLB01 TLB01 is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Seabeck, Washington
Posts: 268
Thanks: 32
Thanked 131 Times in 78 Posts
Default Re: Printed circuit boards

Florida. Salt air. Molex connectors. Get under your hood, start pulling connections and find the one that has black mush where a pin connector seems it should live.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 04-08-2017, 12:53:43 AM
Archaeometrist Archaeometrist is offline
Registered-I
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Lakeland, Florida
Posts: 421
Thanks: 110
Thanked 191 Times in 117 Posts
Default Re: Printed circuit boards

Quote:
Originally Posted by TLB01 View Post
Thing is if you have a good soldering iron and a suction bulb with a bit of electrical acumen, you can save these old boards. The printed circuit paths are much more robust and less "busy" than what you see now.
My second laptop was a repair - a surface mount switching transistor had gone out and I replaced it (simple if you know what to do). That was back in the '486 days. The first laptop was an 8086 LCD screen DOS system (slow) that nobody could fix - but I did. All socketed ALS ttl chips - and loved to drain batteries (ancient Kaypro).

I also had a 20Mb hard drive (back when that was fairly big) that had a bad head - I carefully opened it up, bent the bad head back from the platter, put it back together again, reformatted it to ignore the bad head - and ran it that way for two years. It was given to me because of the bad head - and saved me a bundle when I didn't have it. (Laugh) My computer was all scrounged parts, some of which had been repaired after being scrounged. It worked fine although nowhere near as fast as 'new'. I probably had at most $20 in the whole thing.

Even the more 'difficult' devices can sometimes be saved, if you know what you're doing and are careful. It's how we've survived. (Laugh) bailing wire and duct tape - that's for people who have resources!
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 04-08-2017, 01:01:21 AM
Motorhead's Avatar
Motorhead Motorhead is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Central Coast, California
Posts: 3,276
Thanks: 1,419
Thanked 2,128 Times in 1,148 Posts
Default Re: Printed circuit boards

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBlockChev View Post
I just repaired a CMQD 7500 HDKAT. The Inverter was dead shorted control power, a replacement inverter goes for about $2K online. Cost $1.44 for a new MOV , , the Red gismo in the pic, exact same part which I soldered in, it was the only thing which showed signs of overheating but the generator was condemned without it . Control power was dead shorted by it, would blow the fuse instantly. Works fine now, I wonder how many other inverter gens were scrapped because of this simple part failure. I have also repaired Onan YD voltage regulators with a few components but found that since all the other components on the board were 25 yrs old too, failure was a frequent occurrence just in a different place. Cheers Dan
Dan, What is a "MOV?" I ask this because My best friend is full time in his 2004, 36 ft Alpine MH and it has an Onan 7.5 diesel inverter and from being on the coast of Washington State. I cringed a bit when I saw the guts in the set. That part you replaced looks like an old style capacitor.
__________________
Back of 1958 5CCK
Contractors model
On trailer owned by
"Ma" Bell.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 04-08-2017, 01:01:38 AM
Archaeometrist Archaeometrist is offline
Registered-I
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Lakeland, Florida
Posts: 421
Thanks: 110
Thanked 191 Times in 117 Posts
Default Re: Printed circuit boards

Quote:
Originally Posted by TLB01 View Post
Florida. Salt air. Molex connectors. Get under your hood, start pulling connections and find the one that has black mush where a pin connector seems it should live.
If the reply is to me - Florida yes, Black mush no. (Already checked and eliminated that possibility.)

What I think happened is that a spark plug wire was going bad (due for replacement) - arced to the lead coming from the brain box, which destroyed the switching transistor. I suspected that there was something going on but with all we're dealing with, didn't have the time to stop and work on it back then.

You know how everything likes to hit at once!
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 04-08-2017, 02:31:27 AM
BigBlockChev's Avatar
BigBlockChev BigBlockChev is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Coquitlam, BC, Canada
Posts: 1,800
Thanks: 311
Thanked 1,323 Times in 776 Posts
Default Re: Printed circuit boards

A MOV is a metal oxide varistor, it clamps the voltage coming in to protect the circuitry from damage . They are a cheap way to protect the board. If the voltage increases beyond a certain point it triggers and shorts . If it gets hit too often it shorts permanently. Cheers Dan
__________________
It's always something simple.
One test is worth a thousand guesses.
If some is good and more is better then too much is just enough
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to BigBlockChev For This Post:
  #18  
Old 04-08-2017, 06:49:47 AM
armandh armandh is offline
Sponsor
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Suburban St. Louis, Missouri
Posts: 2,631
Thanks: 169
Thanked 627 Times in 505 Posts
Default Re: Printed circuit boards

my generator has relay logic, I can fix that!

my late friend could fix direct coupled PA amplifiers.
but he had a crib sheet of what fixed what.
info earned over many years of fixing the same models.

others with greater understanding can go right to the up stream problem.

juke boxes all over the St Louis MO area are safer today
as the most noted repair butcher has gone into a nursing home

Seeburg KD models were built with pc boards that had a bit too much affinity for H2O
this did not work well with 450VDC B+ and magic smoke got out
also the edge connectors failed under heavy 6.3 VAC loads

Seeburg went back to hand wired until well after the move to transistors.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 04-08-2017, 07:07:49 AM
Gunny Gunny is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 3,599
Thanks: 1,402
Thanked 1,507 Times in 964 Posts
Default Re: Printed circuit boards

Amen to what Billy said. Flight Systems. Those folks are the greatest.

Long ago, the Marine Corps, in their infinite wisdom, sent me to Electrical Equipment Repair school in Camp Lejeune. Part of the course was trouble shooting and repair to printed circuit boards. Has served me well through the years, even fixing boards that appeared to be trash. Surface mount, well, eyes getting old and not as steady with the hands any more so leave that to the young guys.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 04-08-2017, 12:19:23 PM
Motorhead's Avatar
Motorhead Motorhead is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Central Coast, California
Posts: 3,276
Thanks: 1,419
Thanked 2,128 Times in 1,148 Posts
Default Re: Printed Circuit Boards

Gunny, Do you have someone younger to pass on your skill to? I am working with a kid that lives close to me and showing him some of my skills on diesels, carburetors, and other automotive issues.
__________________
Back of 1958 5CCK
Contractors model
On trailer owned by
"Ma" Bell.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

F o r u m Jump

Similar Threads Chosen at Random
Thread Thread Starter F o r u m Replies Last Post
Onan BGD Burning Out Circuit Boards jd2210ct Onan Generators 19 10-06-2013 04:17:51 PM
4.0cck-3cr/12017R Natural gas derating, gaskets, and circuit boards gchank Onan Generators 1 04-28-2013 05:59:11 PM
Any IHC Header printed manuals? Avery22x36 Farm + Industrial Antiques and Collectibles 2 11-26-2010 02:40:13 PM
Onan 4k BGEFA would like to rewire and get rid of circuit boards oldsteveo Onan Generators 9 11-08-2010 09:25:25 AM
Onan 30.0 EK need help finding printed mtl Aaron Gist Onan Generators 6 03-07-2006 09:43:57 PM


Use "Ctrl" mouse wheel to change screen size.
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:21:27 AM.

Smokstak and Enginads site search!


All use is subject to our TERMS OF SERVICE
SMOKSTAK® is a Registered Trade Mark - A Community of Antique Engine Enthusiasts
Copyright © 2000 - 2016 by Harry Matthews P.O. Box 5612 - Sarasota, FL 34277