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Kohler k301 diy oil pump and filter


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  #1  
Old 11-18-2018, 02:41:58 PM
Gregothegreat Gregothegreat is offline
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Default Kohler k301 diy oil pump and filter

I'm off grid and took a 1975 k301 slowed down to 1800 rpm and drilled out the carb to run on natural gas. My only problem is oil change intervill. I'm running 7 to 12 hr per day so change oil 1 2 times week. Is there a way I could use the fuel pump as oil pump and add a filter housing and return to the dipstick.
Or use an external pump hooked to the oil drain, I would then turn on the pump a time or 2 during the day. It would pump through filter and return through the dipstick hole. It's not that much oil to change but it adds up. Cheep oil is 20 bucks 5 litre jug so I'd use 2 jug a month 40 bucks x 12 is 480 year. It would be nice if I could change only 2 x month
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Old 11-18-2018, 04:34:43 PM
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John Newman, Jr. John Newman, Jr. is offline
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Default Re: Kohler k301 diy oil pump and filter

Hello and welcome to the 'Stak!
I would assume that you have a gravity flow fuel tank, thereby freeing up the factory fuel pump to alter as you suggest. Actually sounds workable if the diaphragm will stand up to the task. Gasoline is a lot lighter than oil and usually does not operate at full stroke - Just enough to keep the carb bowl filled. May be too much for the diaphragm, but even if it fails, there's just oil on both sides - No fuel in crankcase contamination and dilution. Plus, this method is continuous without any input from the operator (you). Just run a line from the drain to the pump and back in through the dipstick hole.
If you do this, please post pictures!
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Old 11-18-2018, 07:51:39 PM
gdstew gdstew is offline
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Default Re: Kohler k301 diy oil pump and filter

I don't think the diaphragm would be any problem, my concern would be the check valves inside the pump. I would lean more to a gear driven transfer pump. Kohler also makes a remote kit for engines with oilers, could be adapted. Interesting subject!
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Old 11-18-2018, 08:00:54 PM
G Sams G Sams is offline
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Default Re: Kohler k301 diy oil pump and filter

Any engine running on LP or natural gas will run much cleaner than on gasoline. Typically oil will stay clean at least twice as long as if run on gasoline.
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Old 11-18-2018, 08:26:47 PM
Vanman Vanman is offline
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Default Re: Kohler k301 diy oil pump and filter

What an interesting idea! I'd bet it would work OK when the oil is hot and thin. When it's thick, not so much.

But considering that the pump's intake is powered by the plunger and it's output stroke is entirely powered by the return spring, it may be self limiting by the restriction through the filter, just like it is limited when the carb bowl gets full.

On another note, I would think you would want a water cooled engine for off grid, so you can supply your heat and hot water for free. Other than good old stuff, not sure where you'd find a good, small water cooled engine...
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Old 11-18-2018, 08:39:32 PM
Newoldstock Newoldstock is offline
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Default Re: Kohler k301 diy oil pump and filter

I think the 301 has an oil pump already.
if it does not slowing it down that much might be asking too much of a splash lube engine.
You could make a Hollow oil dipper but its still risky.

This is my 331 it has an oil pump so it could turn 1800 rpm.
See the pressure gauge?

https://www.smokstak.com/forum/attac...5&d=1542494047

I looked at an internal of the 301, no oil pump.
I don't think it will turn 1800 under load without problems

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Originally Posted by Vanman View Post
What an interesting idea! I'd bet it would work OK when the oil is hot and thin. When it's thick, not so much.

But considering that the pump's intake is powered by the plunger and it's output stroke is entirely powered by the return spring, it may be self limiting by the restriction through the filter, just like it is limited when the carb bowl gets full.

On another note, I would think you would want a water cooled engine for off grid, so you can supply your heat and hot water for free. Other than good old stuff, not sure where you'd find a good, small water cooled engine...
2.3 litre Ford engine is almost bullet proof and good on fuel, cheap to fix and easily adapted to this sort of thing.

Last edited by Newoldstock; 11-18-2018 at 08:41:53 PM. Reason: More thoughts
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Old 11-18-2018, 09:29:31 PM
Vanman Vanman is offline
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Default Re: Kohler k301 diy oil pump and filter

1800 rpm sounds slow, but in reality is whipping right along. Consider how many splash lubed compressors run much slower than that.

I believe all of my 1800 rpm singles are splash lubed, save for some having a pump just to keep the rod dipper trough full. Briggs B, ZZ, 23, Kohler K7, Wisconsin AA. I think the Briggs ZZ specs an idle speed of 1200 rpm. Not sure on the others.
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Old 11-19-2018, 10:16:37 AM
Gregothegreat Gregothegreat is offline
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Default Re: Kohler k301 diy oil pump and filter

I have no shortage of water cooled engines. A listeroid cs 6/1 with 11000 hr running on wvo. Newly acquired a petteroid this is a DM 10 and was an Indian clone of petter but imported and built by Arrow oil field. Both are lovely engines but I'm tired of the constant tinkering you have to do with these. The lister has to be tore down every 1500 hr at least if not sooner. Running wvo causes carbon and water injection will help but still needs to be decarboned. Tear down is a 2 day a fair. Then as they say there is no free lunch. Meaning now I have to process wvo 12 barrel per year. And on it goes I'm getting older and less ambitious, the Kohler purrs along nicely with little attention necessary. It is way over powered for the gen head I'm running the gas conversion was very easy, it starts easy, even my wife and kid can start it. I worked for a friend I gave him 4 hr work and he gave me a 10 hp Kohler and a 14 hp. Both spin over and were used on grain angers. Very low hours and very little service, oil changes ect. So with 3 running Kohler I should have cheep power till they come and take me to the old age home . Just need to extend oil life to like one a month that would be about 250 hr and I found out 1 hr run time is comparable to 40 mi so 11000 mi.
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Old 11-19-2018, 10:58:57 AM
Newoldstock Newoldstock is offline
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Default Re: Kohler k301 diy oil pump and filter

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vanman View Post
1800 rpm sounds slow, but in reality is whipping right along. Consider how many splash lubed compressors run much slower than that.

I believe all of my 1800 rpm singles are splash lubed, save for some having a pump just to keep the rod dipper trough full. Briggs B, ZZ, 23, Kohler K7, Wisconsin AA. I think the Briggs ZZ specs an idle speed of 1200 rpm. Not sure on the others.
All those engines have oil dippers and lubrication needs intended to go that speed.
An engine turning 3600 rpm with an oil dipper big enough to lubricate properly at 1800 rpm might just whip the oil into a froth

Second an idle speed is also a way of saying not at load.
How much load can you put on it at low speed and would it have the ability to cool and lubricate itself turning that slow.

Easy way to settle this dispute is consult the manual.
According to this chart 1800 rpm is OK, that is the slowest recommended though.
The engine is rated at 85% or BHP ( impressive )
http://www.ihcubcadet.com/forum/mess...tml?1383873458
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Old 11-19-2018, 04:06:01 PM
Andrew Mackey Andrew Mackey is offline
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Exclamation Re: Kohler k301 diy oil pump and filter

Running your K-301 at 1800 RPM will not hurt it. As for using the fuel pump to pump oil - it probably will not work. The checks are part of the diaphragm, and as stated in earlier posts, gas is a lot thinner than oil.

There are several things to consider here. 1) as stated earlier, running on NG is a lot cleaner than on gasoline. That may bring your oil change interval to double the normal interval. 2) Even if the gas pump on the engine might circulate oil, the resistance of the oil going thru an oil filter probably would stop the flow generated by the pump.

The idea of running an external pump is a good idea though. A small gear drive transfer pump piped to the engine drain, then thru an automotive filter, then returned thru the fill pipe sounds like a good idea. You could run the pump off the power supplied by your generator and then the oil would circulate as the engine makes power. You can buy remote location oil filter mounts at a good auto supply. Using an auto filter gives you 3 advantages. 1) it increases the oil capacity of your engine. If you use a large filter, it will almost double it. 2) the larger filter filtering area will allow for a longer lifetime to the filter. 3)if you turn on the pump as the engine is running, the flow of oil will help coo the oil in the engine. The filter and piping will help cool the oil.

The only draw back is the oil itself. Yes, some come combustion by-products get into the oil, past the rings. Carbon, some acids, water vapor etc, but your main concern would be oxidation of the oil itself. Being splash lubricated, the oil is constantly exposed to oxygen in the air, inside the crankcase. It above anything else, causes degradation of the oil. If I remember right, the engine calls for an oil change every 25 hours of normal use. With the added capacity of a large filter, you might quadruple that, using NG fuel. I certainly would not go beyond the 100 hour mark if you do use a large filter. if you decide to use a small engine filter, you are still limited to less than the 50 hour mark. Not worth the investment in using an external filter, as the oil degrade factor remains constant. The filter will not remove oxidation from the oil. Unless your engine is wearing out parts, and sending metal bits into the oil, I would just keep using the engine as-is, making your oil changes at the 45 hour use point to be safe (13/4 times regular rate of change.

Look at your oil, after an oil change. Is it similar to what you put in? Is it darker or even black? Any water vapor deposits in the oil stick pipe? what oil are you using? Straight 30, multigrade? If anything, I would use oil made for diesel engines, not automotive oil. Diesel oil has high pressure lubricants that will help prevent wear of cam and lifters in the flat tappet engine. Auto oil has had these lubricants removed by EPA law. Not good for your engine!
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