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Kohler 20rz eating starters; (wonít stop cranking)


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  #1  
Old 12-02-2018, 06:08:12 PM
allthumbs allthumbs is offline
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Default Kohler 20rz eating starters; (wonít stop cranking)

Hi group,
Iíve got a late 80ís 20rz with Dec3 controller and about 600 hours. Recently I found it wouldnít crank. Replaced the burnt out starter with Ford part from
Napa auto and the solenoid for good measure. The unit fired back up and I figured all was good. Come to Find after running it for 20mins or so without incident I then shut down and restarted it. At that point the starter stuck. I was unable to shut down the unit from the dec3; I had to cut fuel and disconnect the battery. I found the solenoid activated and the ĎIí terminal on the solenoid with 12vdc. There was no voltage on the ĎSí terminal of the solenoid. For good measure I sent the control board to flight systems who diagnosed it as no problem found. So far Iíve been through 2 solenoids and 2 starters. Not sure where to go from here but welcome any suggestions. Thanks in advance. Peter
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Old 12-02-2018, 07:06:34 PM
pegasuspinto pegasuspinto is offline
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Default Re: Kohler 20rz eating starters; (wonít stop cranking)

There are about a zillion kinds of those 'ford' starter solenoids, they all look about alike and all have the same terminals, but the internal wiring is different. Quite possible you got the wrong one. There is also a lot of Chinese crap out there in both solenoids and starters. The correct Kohler one is 291891. You can get them on the internet pretty cheap, under $30.

The I terminal will have voltage on it while running. If the S terminal has no voltage but you're still cranking, your either got the wrong solenoid OR your solenoid is stuck. S is the crank feed from the controls.
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Old 12-02-2018, 07:13:01 PM
radiodoc radiodoc is offline
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Default Re: Kohler 20rz eating starters; (wonít stop cranking)

Never too old to learn something. I had thought the "I" terminal bypassed the ignition coil resistor when cranking to give a hotter spark to the plugs.
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Old 12-02-2018, 07:33:19 PM
pegasuspinto pegasuspinto is offline
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Default Re: Kohler 20rz eating starters; (wonít stop cranking)

It does. But when running, the voltage backfeeds from the resistor back to the I terminal....on THOSE applications. I terminal can also be the other end of the solenoid coil, and grounds to crank, or maybe grounds through a safety switch. Sometimes the coil gets it's power from one of the battery studs and grounds through the S terminal to crank. Some solenoids have one, two, or three terminals.

When you can't look up the coil by make-model-year, your local auto parts store can get you in trouble real fast with those solenoids.
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Old 12-03-2018, 08:33:55 AM
allthumbs allthumbs is offline
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Default Re: Kohler 20rz eating starters; (wonít stop cranking)

@Pegasuspinto thank you for the information and suggestioks. Iím going to order the correct solenoid and see if that helps. I will report back. Peter
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Old 12-16-2018, 02:10:24 PM
allthumbs allthumbs is offline
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Default Re: Kohler 20rz eating starters; (wonít stop cranking)

Update for the group- replacing the Napa/Echlin solenoid with a Kohler OEM unit 100% cleared up the issue. I'm up and running again for a grand total of about $30. Thank you to everyone who offered advice.

-Allthumbs
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Old 12-17-2018, 06:05:35 PM
Mark Dieckmann Mark Dieckmann is offline
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Default Re: Kohler 20rz eating starters; (wonít stop cranking)

It is good to hear that you have it running. I am curious what is different about the Kohler solenoid? Maybe the I terminal is really just the other end of the coil? Not grounded internally?
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Old 01-04-2019, 04:29:22 PM
BrianHaze BrianHaze is offline
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Default Re: Kohler 20rz eating starters; (wonít stop cranking)

Kohler decision makers, 292806, 336415, gm28725 and gm64497 all have the same issue after a few years you could run into. A problem i like to call "ghosting"
It is a common issue flight systems sees in the repairs they do. I've had, since 2010 sent at least 100 of them into those guys.
So ghosting is when you start seeing the flywheels being chewed up, or the generator will not shut down, or in auto it randomly starts by itself(which is where ghosting came from)
From what ive been told, the problem is some static sensitive components that break down over the years. Shoot, I've even seen one where I barely brushed up against the board and it fired off.
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Old 01-04-2019, 06:55:22 PM
pegasuspinto pegasuspinto is offline
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Default Re: Kohler 20rz eating starters; (wonít stop cranking)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Dieckmann View Post
It is good to hear that you have it running. I am curious what is different about the Kohler solenoid? Maybe the I terminal is really just the other end of the coil? Not grounded internally?
There are probably dozens of solenoid configurations, manufactures changed the pins depending on what made the wiring best for them. The problem is, auto parts stores can't look up generator parts, so they just guess. Most people guess it's a Ford solenoid, which even Ford had more then one style. Guess wrong, and it worn't work.

I have seen a 3 pin solenoid that would probably be a universal replacement, but it would require knowing what you have and wiring as needed. More then most people can do.
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Old 01-05-2019, 11:27:31 AM
Mark Dieckmann Mark Dieckmann is offline
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Default Re: Kohler 20rz eating starters; (wonít stop cranking)

I am aware of the different types of solenoid wiring. I was just wondering how the Kohler is made?
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