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40 Gaar Scott Restoration


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  #41  
Old 01-28-2009, 12:28:28 AM
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Craig A Craig A is offline
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Default Re: 40 Gaar Scott Restoration

Things might looks nice at a distance......but.......
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  #42  
Old 01-28-2009, 01:05:19 AM
Mike McKnight Mike McKnight is offline
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Thumbs up Re: 40 Gaar Scott Restoration

Yep...description and pics sure make things clearer. Still say it would be nice if one could find a parted-out 25 HP DRM for gears...but don't know if such a critter exists! Maybe that's the best way to go is the way you're going.

I don't know if the brazing would be as strong as original metal, but know it's been used to fix busted and broken cast iron for a long time now, 100 yrs or so, at least? I would tend to think you'd be better off building up the teeth of the gearing with some of those cast iron rods I've heard of...maybe not? I know that's the way Harold Stark built my diff gear teeth up on my 60. Different strokes for different folks! The bearing surfaces I think you'll be fine with brazing. I'll shut up now with my armchair quarterbacking, after I say good job!

Mike
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  #43  
Old 01-28-2009, 02:02:16 AM
19-65Port 19-65Port is offline
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Default Re: 40 Gaar Scott Restoration

Brazing is only about 30,000 tensile strength and tends to peel and is soft when used in a gear applaction. A cast steel gear could be between 50,000 and 80,000 Brass gears were often used in automotive and other machines to provide a weak link so the other gears did not wear out. Braze would probally be fine in an old engine thats not going to run too much. I have seen an Avery 45-65 with a brazed engine pinion just growled alot and turned the grease to glitter that spins a little faster. If in fact the gears are cast steel why not weld them with regular rod. Welding cast steel is a regular thing at work.
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  #44  
Old 01-28-2009, 02:41:18 AM
Mike McKnight Mike McKnight is offline
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Default Re: 40 Gaar Scott Restoration

I'd say in 1908, when the engine was built, they were only cast iron, or at the most semi-steel, instead of cast steel.

From what I understand, this is going to be used as a heavy-duty plowing engine, is it not?
Mike
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  #45  
Old 01-28-2009, 09:32:30 AM
GaarScott GaarScott is offline
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Default Re: 40 Gaar Scott Restoration

Fella's,

I've been hashing this about. I was told by the machine shop, and others in the area, that bronze, not brass, is stronger than the original cast-iron. Mike, we assumed the gears to be cast steel, as the teeth are folded back. If they had been pure cast-iron, they would have broke out instead of folding back...at least I believe this to be true. But you may be onto something about being semi-steel vs. cast steel. I'm a little more incline to accept that then pure cast-iron.

Anyway, folks around these parts seem to frown on using nickel rod to weld up cast-iron. They are totally sold on using bronze. I'm assuming it is brazed in just like brass and other soft metals...that may be my own ignorance showing through though.

Besides, the shop is guaranteeing the gear teeth they are welding to not break out again. If they do, they will repair it for free. So, with that, other than the trouble of removing the then needed repaired gear, how can one go wrong. This particular shop has been doing similar repairs to engines since way back in the day when they were still being used for actual work instead of play work we do with them today. I believe their long record speaks highly for them...that is one of the major reasons Jerred and I chose them...that and they are roughly two hours from both Jerred and myself, so either of us can reasonably make a run to their shop to drop off & or pick up repaired parts.

I appreciate everyone's concerns. But a decision had to be made on how to best make the repairs, and one has been met. This fall, if all goes as Jerred hopes, we will soon enough find out. By the way, this is the same method that Larson Welding and Machine Shop uses to do similar repairs. Like I said, up here North, these boys don't like using nickel rod too much...if ever.

Lawrence
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  #46  
Old 01-28-2009, 10:38:52 AM
Brad Kelley Brad Kelley is offline
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Default Re: 40 Gaar Scott Restoration

There are some good pictures of the "A-bracket" on Kory Anderson's 25 Gaar somewhere in another thread...

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  #47  
Old 01-28-2009, 11:20:35 AM
Jeff Smith Jeff Smith is offline
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Default Re: 40 Gaar Scott Restoration

You might consider sending a small piece of the gear metal out and get a spec. analysis on it. It might be worth the money to help make a determination on what process to use? The last time I had one completed on a piece of metal was around 2001 and it was about $75.00. With the results, you can then determine the best solution.


Jeff Smith
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  #48  
Old 01-28-2009, 12:50:14 PM
JMathews JMathews is offline
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Default Re: 40 Gaar Scott Restoration

Have you been able to look under the jackett at the boiler yet? With the plans to have the engine eunning this fall, massave boiler repairs/new boiler is not in the plan. can you tell the origonal design pressure?
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  #49  
Old 01-28-2009, 01:18:58 PM
LundMachineWorks LundMachineWorks is offline
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Default Re: 40 Gaar Scott Restoration

Jmathews, A new boiler is in process at my shop.
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  #50  
Old 01-28-2009, 02:18:33 PM
nrffarmboy nrffarmboy is offline
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Default Re: 40 Gaar Scott Restoration

Well Lawrence
I dont have a degree in Metallurgy or anything but I would almost say the gears are pure steel because it wouldent be Gray Iron because gray iron is flake graphite like and has good thermal transfer characteristics, and is very britle. gray iron is used mostly for fan pulleys and shieves. gray iron only comes in 30 and 40 iron. It might be Ductile Iron witch has lower carbon content yet Ductile iron can be poured in grades of 60,65,65mod,80 and 100. The 100 is the hardest meaning it has more copper and other alloys mixed in it. Ductile is more like steel. But Still not steel.
You say cast steel, Ok Thats still 100% steel. Cast is just the they way that the metal is poured or formed. You can have cast Aluminum,cast brass, cast gold or cast iron. The end product is a casting.

I think, that by looking at grears and how they are worn I would think the might be steel gears and you can use steel, But it should be heat treated and theres about 20 diffent ways to heat treat. But that a whole new can of beans.
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