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Honda EU7000is Automatic Start Help!


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  #1  
Old 01-16-2018, 04:47:18 PM
SunnyMark SunnyMark is offline
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Question Honda EU7000is Automatic Start Help!

Hi there,

I've been tasked with connecting an offgrid Magnum Energy system to a Honda EU7000is generator so it will start automatically when the battery voltage drops below a threshold.

See schematic here: http://www.magnum-dimensions.com/sit...-30-2015DM.pdf

I have all of the required parts to do the job, but I haven't seen a great parts list or diagrams of the Honda generator detailing the wiring so I can tap into the starter switch and main switch.

Has anyone out there got good pictures of the guts of this generator so I have an idea of where I'm tying into when I get to site? Looking to get out there this coming Friday for the installation.

Any assistance would be very much appreciated.
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Old 01-16-2018, 08:03:10 PM
Birken Vogt Birken Vogt is offline
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Default Re: Honda EU7000is Automatic Start Help!

See this thread

http://907solar.com/honda

Connector here

http://www.genconnexdirect.net/gener...accesories.htm

Everything you need should be in there plus the link you already supplied.

Let me know, with pictures, where you have a problem, but it should be no problem if you are experienced in this kind of thing.

For the record, let me state my opinion that the EU7000 is a poor choice for this service, and I don't like Magnum either. But they may not be your decisions to make.
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Old 01-16-2018, 09:11:59 PM
SunnyMark SunnyMark is offline
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Default Re: Honda EU7000is Automatic Start Help!

Hi there,

Thanks for the links. The Magnum system was already there (Magnum 48V inverters have been bulletproof as far as I've seen, simplistic for the non-technical customer ) and I recommended the EU7000is based on Honda's track record, I haven't seen any indication as to why not...

I don't have the time to get the connector in, i'll be splicing into the existing wiring and as such my post exists to request pictures and insight regarding where these wires lie behind the panel.

Figured I'm not headed out until Friday for the install so I'd try to be as prep'd as possible.
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Old 01-17-2018, 01:29:32 AM
Birken Vogt Birken Vogt is offline
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Default Re: Honda EU7000is Automatic Start Help!

Honda inverter generators are quiet at low load because they run slow.

But hook one to an inverter battery battery charger and they run up to full speed and suddenly the quietness is gone.

It holds a quart plus a drop of oil so keep a very close eye on that.

I always say that engine runs about 4000 hours, give or take a little.

If I spec an off grid system, it is with an 1800 RPM water cooled generator except in rare cases where it will be a 14 kW Kohler.

Full automation is my goal and when you have a quart of oil, you can't count on that.

I just want you to have realistic expectations.

Anyway, back to the question, in the blue box of the link you posted, you see some wire colors there, isn't that the list of wire colors you are looking for?
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Old 01-17-2018, 09:33:33 AM
SunnyMark SunnyMark is offline
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Default Re: Honda EU7000is Automatic Start Help!

All your points are valid, but the owner went from a manual start 5000w Honda and wanted an upgrade within his budget. The EU7000 is far quieter and is located in a shed 100' from the battery bank and inverter - he is quite happy with the new sound level.

Being in Canada, most of the failures we see are from generators not starting up due to the cold weather. I'm hoping the Honda will be reliable in this regard. The guy lives there and maintains other machinery like bobcats and wood splitters so I'm sure he'll be fine with some maintenance for his generator.

I'm curious to know what your issues are with Magnum products - as I said we've found them to be bulletproof over the years. You're an Outback kind of guy? I love the new OpticsRE capabilities (when the system stays connected to the internet..)
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Old 01-17-2018, 12:47:41 PM
Birken Vogt Birken Vogt is offline
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Default Re: Honda EU7000is Automatic Start Help!

Magnum is not terrible but I do not recommend it to anyone.

It is obvious to see that they have never really shed their mobile/RV heritage and the stupid control panel bears this out. Also had/heard of a few too many letting the magic smoke out for my taste.

Outback used to be the gold standard but they have become corporatized lately and not real impressed with them any more. Their Mate 3 seems like a great product, but too many software glitches to recommend it to anyone who needs it to keep working without intervention.

We used to think SMA was too complicated, but if it is set up right, seems like a real solid platform and is my current recommendation to someone who wants a system that just works.

Midnite is the one company that really "gets it", but they don't make an inverter (yet). But their charge controllers are far better than the competition.

Mature, robust software is the thing that carries the day. Too many manufacturers ship stuff that is not perfect, and in this field, the software (and hardware) has to be *perfect*, can't have it glitching out *ever*, it has to be capable of running for years without intervention.

Those are my thoughts at the present time.
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Old 01-17-2018, 01:05:37 PM
SunnyMark SunnyMark is offline
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Default Re: Honda EU7000is Automatic Start Help!

Definitely SMA is the gold (Sunny Islands are even yellow) standard for sure, but I've been hard pressed to find anyone that wants to pay that sort of premium.

Also, the MATE3 has been replaced by the MATE3S which apparently has a better network interface - time will tell on that... We just upgraded the firmware on one we've got out in the field due to poor uptime.

I for one am excited about the new MidNite Solar product : http://www.midnitesolar.com/pages/b17/index.php

Hopefully it gets on the market soon.

We've got some of the MidNite classics out in the field and have had no issues with them, although I am wholly unimpressed with their user interface. But at least now it talks to you...

I believe we've got 3 Magnum PT-100 charge controllers out in the field and haven't heard anything back from our customers (no news = good news) - I'm quite disappointed with their lack of programmability without the Magnum inverter + remote though.
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Old 01-17-2018, 01:17:10 PM
Birken Vogt Birken Vogt is offline
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Default Re: Honda EU7000is Automatic Start Help!

I believe the B17 is several years out.

I don't think much of the UI on any charge controller but the ratings and features of the Classics make them the winner. Availability of 250V plus hyper VOC and built in GFCI/AFCI.

Most of the Magnums in my area are self installed. My impression is that the user picks them because they are cheapest.

We don't try to compete in the bargain basement arena. Living off grid is not cheap. We try to at least make it reliable.
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Old 03-27-2018, 01:10:23 PM
constant constant is offline
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Default Re: Honda EU7000is Automatic Start Help!

Birken, if the Magnums are not your first choice for inverter auto start interface, what is your preference?
- The Atkinson Electronics units that I have looked at (GSCM-Mini series) seem to have many unneeded capabilities and bells, including an LED run indicator.
- The install being worked on needs to have easy manual start capability at the genset, without disconnecting any plugs. I am looking at how multi-pole single throw switching can accomplish this manual/auto control at the genset.

None of the units I am seeing, deal with having to leave the ignition on (140 mA draw by my measurements), then supplying the needed energy by some other means. It seems that a relay that is energized by the inverter start sequence could complete the ACC and MAIN circuits to power up the GCU. I do not know what delay is needed or recommended for powering up the GCU, before it receives a start signal. In normal key operation, there is inherently a slight delay between turning the key and pushing the start button.

@DLester, you mentioned a dead battery situation due to a failed trickle charger, on another thread.. Was that trickle charger installed to deal with the "ignition on" battery drain? Earlier, when you were first installing the remote, I saw that you had not wanted to go a route that left an unmonitored charging. Understandable. I don't either, let alone the energy consumption, even at 140mA.
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Old 04-07-2018, 11:35:48 AM
DLester DLester is offline
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Default Re: Honda EU7000is Automatic Start Help!

Just spotted this question.

@constant

The answer is a qualified “no”. I see that you’re using 140 mA as the drain current for the ignition on/engine not running condition. That matches my measurements exactly, for a generator that has both poles of the ignition switch in the “on” state. However, my remote switch defeats one of the two poles of the rotary panel switch. Until I enable that pole, the drain is around 10 mA with the panel switch on. That’s the standby condition my generator has to live in. Thus, I’m not using the trickle charger to offset the relatively large 140mA drain; I’m just using it occasionally to top up.

There is an observation I’d like to pass along that may affect other owners, especially those who might want automatic starting. I found that my generator is fussy about the dwell time of the pushing of the Start button. If I just tap and release the button, the generator responds poorly (it mashes the starter pinion into place, then does nothing more). If I hold the button in for a second or so, the start cycle progresses normally.

I can’t even guess what goes on in that all-powerful controller, but the evidence I’ve seen is that it needs a little time to organize the start sequence. I was slow to make this discovery for two reasons: (1) I sometimes launch an exercise run from the remote switch, where I cannot hear what is happening over at the generator; (2) even when I can hear, the response from a too-quick button push looks a lot like a low battery, leading to misunderstanding.
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