Antique Engines and Old Iron
[Home] - [HELP] - [Forums] - [Library] - [Photo Gallery] - [Groups] - [Classified Ads] - [Subscribe] - [Links] - [Books] - [Sponsors] -

Go Back   SmokStak > SmokStak® Vintage Electrical Equipment > Lighting Fixtures, Switch Panels and Meters
Forgot Password? Join Us!

Notices

Lighting Fixtures, Switch Panels and Meters Antique lighting fixtures, bulbs, switches, meters and controls.

Lighting Fixtures, Switch Panels and Meters

Wooden Knob and tube "conduit", and a gas light.


this thread has 25 replies and has been viewed 3561 times

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 02-25-2016, 11:37:58 PM
1936JDB 1936JDB is offline
Registered-III
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Roodhouse, Illinois
Posts: 1,246
Thanks: 764
Thanked 1,499 Times in 511 Posts
Default Wooden Knob and tube "conduit", and a gas light.

Someone here once asked about wooden "conduit" used for knob and tube wiring. I went through me old threads and can't seem to find it. I once worked at a house that had a short run of it. Well today I was back for a remodel and was able to salvage the pieces intact. So whoever it was, I hope you see this.




There was also this converted gas light if it means anything to anyone.


Reply With Quote
The Following 9 Users Say Thank You to 1936JDB For This Post:
Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old 02-26-2016, 12:04:10 AM
dalmatiangirl61 dalmatiangirl61 is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: San Marcos, Texas / McGill, Nevada
Posts: 4,678
Thanks: 5,599
Thanked 4,001 Times in 1,969 Posts
Default Re: Wooden Knob and tube "conduit", and a gas light.

It might have been me, I don't remember. I have concrete room that I'm trying to figure out how to run power in, choice is cut concrete so I can bury it in the wall, or plain conduit on surface. I wonder what building inspector would think of a modern version that I could run romex in?
__________________
Those who can see the invisible, can do the impossible
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 02-26-2016, 12:07:47 AM
1936JDB 1936JDB is offline
Registered-III
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Roodhouse, Illinois
Posts: 1,246
Thanks: 764
Thanked 1,499 Times in 511 Posts
Default Re: Wooden Knob and tube "conduit", and a gas light.

Well. If the wire was either 1 1/2" from the wall face, or protected with a metal nail guard he'd have a hard time failing it.

However, properly done Emt looks pretty darn good IMHO.

Last edited by 1936JDB; 02-26-2016 at 08:41:27 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 02-26-2016, 03:17:26 AM
turbo's Avatar
turbo turbo is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Heron Lake, Minnesota, USA
Posts: 1,094
Thanks: 627
Thanked 1,050 Times in 443 Posts
Default Re: Wooden Knob and tube "conduit", and a gas light.

pretty cool! I have never seen that before. Pretty much the old time version of wire mold.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 02-26-2016, 10:35:24 AM
1936JDB 1936JDB is offline
Registered-III
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Roodhouse, Illinois
Posts: 1,246
Thanks: 764
Thanked 1,499 Times in 511 Posts
Default Re: Wooden Knob and tube "conduit", and a gas light.

Yep, like wiremold. We were pretty shocked (no pun) when we tried to pry it off before.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 02-26-2016, 12:27:34 PM
Frank DeWitt Frank DeWitt is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Bloomfield, New York, USA
Posts: 678
Thanks: 108
Thanked 574 Times in 257 Posts
Default Re: Wooden Knob and tube "conduit", and a gas light.

I think that was me. http://www.smokstak.com/forum/showth...iremold&page=2 #29

Another reader was very kind and gave me a short section but I would like to get some more for my traveling display.

Very nice find. I am interested if you want to sell.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Frank DeWitt For This Post:
  #7  
Old 02-26-2016, 12:41:41 PM
1936JDB 1936JDB is offline
Registered-III
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Roodhouse, Illinois
Posts: 1,246
Thanks: 764
Thanked 1,499 Times in 511 Posts
Default Re: Wooden Knob and tube "conduit", and a gas light.

Sure. I don't need more stuff around. But I couldn't watch them dumpster it.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to 1936JDB For This Post:
  #8  
Old 02-26-2016, 02:11:38 PM
Power Power is offline
Registered-III
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 5,105
Thanks: 1,174
Thanked 3,011 Times in 1,773 Posts
Default Re: Wooden Knob and tube "conduit", and a gas light.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dalmatiangirl61 View Post
It might have been me, I don't remember. I have concrete room that I'm trying to figure out how to run power in, choice is cut concrete so I can bury it in the wall, or plain conduit on surface. I wonder what building inspector would think of a modern version that I could run romex in?
If you use BX instead of romex, inspector should be happy.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 02-26-2016, 02:15:25 PM
Andrew Mackey Andrew Mackey is offline
Sponsor
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Rockaway, New Jersey USA
Posts: 13,831
Thanks: 1,960
Thanked 6,449 Times in 4,161 Posts
Default Re: Wooden Knob and tube "conduit", and a gas light.

Most of the knob and tube wiring I have seen was just run in individual wires about 6" apart. Where it penetrated joists or beams, porcelean tubes with a knob on one end were used. For parallel runs, an 8 penney nail with porcelean isolaters were nailed into the sides of the beams

If you are wiring a new pour in concrete, electrical conduit can be buried within the pour. Either individual wires or romex can then be installed in the conduit. If you are wiring an existing concrete surface, romex can be installed within plastic shielding that attached to the painted surface with adhesive, and plastic boxes mounted on the wall face at heights determined by local codec. This includes light switches and outlets. The plactic shielding and outlets are made for surface mounting (finished surfaces) once the wiring gets above the ceiling, regular mounting is the rule.

Wood encasement is nor recommended for knob and tube - if the wires get hot from overloading, the wood could char or catch fore! The isolation mounting allowed heat to disapate, and kept adjascent wires from touching, thus preventing fires.

In my 25 years experience as a fire fighter, I never saw a fire caused by knob and tube, except where it was altered or cut during construction (often illegal)! I have seen many fires where aluminum wiring was used, as well as plastic outlets.

The second photo is a bit if interesting history! looks like gas fittings from a carbide gas lighting system. Some of these were used when natural gas was introduced, but most were abandoned when electric lighting came out! believe it or not, our firehouse (built in 1909-11) still has some of the original gas lamp piping in the walls!
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 02-26-2016, 05:20:24 PM
George Andreasen George Andreasen is offline
Registered-III
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Alturas, California
Posts: 825
Thanks: 27
Thanked 350 Times in 192 Posts
Default Re: Wooden Knob and tube "conduit", and a gas light.

According to my 1920's "Electricity for the Handy Man" it's called a raceway.

By the way, that gas lamp is NOT converted. They were made that way to take advantage of either gas or electric. I used to have a couple hooked up in my family room and we'd use the gas portion for "atmosphere" when shooting pool. Those were fun days.............
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 02-26-2016, 05:58:19 PM
Power Power is offline
Registered-III
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 5,105
Thanks: 1,174
Thanked 3,011 Times in 1,773 Posts
Default Re: Wooden Knob and tube "conduit", and a gas light.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Mackey View Post
Some of these were used when natural gas was introduced, but most were abandoned when electric lighting came out! believe it or not, our firehouse (built in 1909-11) still has some of the original gas lamp piping in the walls!
Andrew, Jersey City, Union City and some of NYC still have it in walls. It was supposed to be disconnected, with feeds capped, but some of it is still pressurized, with just a cap where lamp used to be.

A few years ago, one of our electricians was in Jersey City on the 4th floor doing an apartment renovation. He was fishing a line, and the tape got stuck. He gave it a good yank, and soon everyone smelled gas!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

He opened up the hole and saw aluminum tubing going up - to either the apartment above or perhaps a long ago ceiling fixture. He could not figure out where to shut it off, so an emergency call went out to our plumbers. One of the guys busted the wall in below the leak and squeezed the tubing flat with his channel locks, stopping the leak.

A whole crew of guys had responded, and eventually found a big manifold with a lot of aluminum tubing branch lines above the sheetrock in the basement ceiling. The manifold and piping had been sheet rocked over years ago! All the tubing petcocks were frozen in the open position. The building owners did not care and did not want to pay to have the gas lines properly disconnected. Our company notified the fire dept. and building dept. They had the gas turned off, and found a bunch of violations to boot. Building owner paid to have gas lines properly disconnected and capped.

That is one of many reasons why I specialized in "new construction" and did not want "old work".
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 02-27-2016, 08:57:16 AM
Graycenphil Graycenphil is offline
Registered-III
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Eastford, Connecticut
Posts: 866
Thanks: 634
Thanked 176 Times in 135 Posts
Default Re: Wooden Knob and tube "conduit", and a gas light.

Many times, in older buildings in New York City, I have found "live" gas lines in the wall or ceiling with nothing but a plug in the end.

I am continually amazed at how rare gas explosions are. I guess that smelly stuff really does a great job of alerting people to a leak.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Graycenphil For This Post:
  #13  
Old 02-27-2016, 03:15:50 PM
len k len k is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Manchester, New Hampshire
Posts: 18,214
Thanks: 592
Thanked 6,814 Times in 4,904 Posts
Default Re: Wooden Knob and tube "conduit", and a gas light.

I know a masonary garage where they wanted to install ~ 2-3 inch gas main for heat, but it was winter and ground was froze. So gas company tapped off line in cellar of neighbor's building next door that was 3 inches away, and waited till summer to dig up the ground to to street for a "real" gas line. They just capped off the line from next door about 4 inches above our cement floor. Building next door eventually burned down, was leveled, and cellar filled with sand. Fast forward about 10 years I get a call from new owner that he was poking around figuring out what pipes were what and found the live gas when he removed the pipe's cap. The gas co never killed the tap, I had no idea. Could have had free heat for decades, it was before the meter.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to len k For This Post:
  #14  
Old 03-08-2016, 05:44:19 PM
George Andreasen George Andreasen is offline
Registered-III
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Alturas, California
Posts: 825
Thanks: 27
Thanked 350 Times in 192 Posts
Default Re: Wooden Knob and tube "conduit", and a gas light.

Quote:
Originally Posted by len k View Post
I know a masonary garage where they wanted to install ~ 2-3 inch gas main for heat, but it was winter and ground was froze. So gas company tapped off line in cellar of neighbor's building next door that was 3 inches away, and waited till summer to dig up the ground to to street for a "real" gas line. They just capped off the line from next door about 4 inches above our cement floor. Building next door eventually burned down, was leveled, and cellar filled with sand. Fast forward about 10 years I get a call from new owner that he was poking around figuring out what pipes were what and found the live gas when he removed the pipe's cap. The gas co never killed the tap, I had no idea. Could have had free heat for decades, it was before the meter.
.........or run a stationary engine and generator for free lights!
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 11-30-2016, 09:32:04 AM
NDmeterman NDmeterman is offline
Registered-I
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Sioux Falls, South Dakota
Posts: 280
Thanks: 762
Thanked 424 Times in 151 Posts
Default Re: Wooden Knob and tube "conduit", and a gas light.

I actually have one of the insulating joints as shown with the lamp - it's been kicking around my "oddball" parts box for a LONG time.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 11-30-2016, 10:52:43 AM
Ronald E. McClellan Ronald E. McClellan is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: West Chester, Pensylvania, USA
Posts: 1,520
Thanks: 1,721
Thanked 1,134 Times in 534 Posts
Default Re: Wooden Knob and tube "conduit", and a gas light.

I have a pair of these hall lights. They are original combination gas and electric. They are the nicest I've seen with the lions heads holding the drop light. The gas is not connected. Ron
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	DSC02482.jpg
Views:	122
Size:	43.5 KB
ID:	269159  
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Ronald E. McClellan For This Post:
  #17  
Old 11-30-2016, 08:40:21 PM
Archaeometrist Archaeometrist is offline
Registered-I
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Lakeland, Florida
Posts: 421
Thanks: 109
Thanked 191 Times in 117 Posts
Default Re: Wooden Knob and tube "conduit", and a gas light.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Mackey View Post
Most of the knob and tube wiring I have seen was just run in individual wires about 6" apart. Where it penetrated joists or beams, porcelean tubes with a knob on one end were used. For parallel runs, an 8 penney nail with porcelean isolaters were nailed into the sides of the beams
My grandma's house has that wiring in the attic. Most of it has been discontinued and modern wiring installed - maybe all of it no longer functions. The wires, insulators, porcelain tubes, and so on is still up there, the last time I was in the place (many years ago).

The house dated to the early 1900s (maybe around 1930 or so), and was built in Agricola Florida (company town, no longer in existence). It was moved to the present location long before I was born, by the company. It's a perfect example of a big old (company-built) cracker house, one made for someone more important than usual. I think it might have even had gas lighting at one time as well, but that I'm not sure about. High ceilings, big porches, and made so it wasn't as hot as other more modern places in the Florida summer. I always found it comfortable when I was a kid, with only a small room AC in the bedroom where I slept. The kitchen was the only place that REALLY needed AC - it was a later addition and did get hot during the day.

You don't see them like that very often!
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 11-30-2016, 09:14:35 PM
Noyes Noyes is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Angola, Indiana, USA
Posts: 93
Thanks: 106
Thanked 87 Times in 30 Posts
Default Re: Wooden Knob and tube "conduit", and a gas light.

Was the tube and knob type of wiring used for 32 Volt DC or 110 Volt AC ?
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 11-30-2016, 09:37:34 PM
Archaeometrist Archaeometrist is offline
Registered-I
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Lakeland, Florida
Posts: 421
Thanks: 109
Thanked 191 Times in 117 Posts
Default Re: Wooden Knob and tube "conduit", and a gas light.

For my Grandma's house - 110 AC.

There was a time when I was a kid that we were warned to avoid one part of the attic, where the wires were hot and still in use - I think powering the light in my grandma's bedroom.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Archaeometrist For This Post:
  #20  
Old 11-30-2016, 09:40:48 PM
Graycenphil Graycenphil is offline
Registered-III
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Eastford, Connecticut
Posts: 866
Thanks: 634
Thanked 176 Times in 135 Posts
Default Re: Wooden Knob and tube "conduit", and a gas light.

It was definitely used for 110 volts - still is, in many cases. There are lots of houses that still have it, and will until someone chooses or is forced to upgrade it.

I suppose it could have been used for 32 volt wiring too, but I don't know.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Graycenphil For This Post:
Reply

Bookmarks


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

F o r u m Jump

Similar Threads Chosen at Random
Thread Thread Starter F o r u m Replies Last Post
John Deere "A" -Coolant Tube Leak Racsan Antique Farm Tractors 10 12-24-2014 03:10:45 PM
Cummins 20.0DL4-15R/25848D not starting, displays "OVERCRANK" light ichudov Onan Generators 18 08-18-2013 07:15:00 PM
Waterloo / T.Eaton "In search of more light.." Engineering design Changes 1Oldiron1 Antique Gas Engine Discussion 5 08-26-2012 09:20:35 PM
Where can i get 1 inch glass tube "for oiler" JKWidener Antique Gas Engine Discussion 7 05-20-2008 07:40:19 PM
looking for "PILEOFIRON" handle on you tube JHFoster Oil Field Engines & Related Equipment 4 04-07-2008 02:54:30 PM


Use "Ctrl" mouse wheel to change screen size.
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:47:38 AM.

Smokstak and Enginads site search!


All use is subject to our TERMS OF SERVICE
SMOKSTAK® is a Registered Trade Mark - A Community of Antique Engine Enthusiasts
Copyright © 2000 - 2019 by Harry Matthews P.O. Box 5612 - Sarasota, FL 34277