Antique Tractors
[Home] - [HELP] - [Forums] - [Library] - [Photo Gallery] - [Groups] - [Classified Ads] - [Subscribe] - [Links] - [Books] - [Sponsors] -

Go Back   SmokStak > SmokStak® Old Iron and Tractor Community > Antique Steel Wheel Tractors - Old Iron Lugs and Cleats
Forgot Password? Join Us!

Notices

Antique Steel Wheel Tractors - Old Iron Lugs and Cleats Photos and information about antique steel wheeled farm tractors. This is where to find the heaviest of Old Iron tractors.

Antique Steel Wheel Tractors - Old Iron Lugs and Cleats

Early 4 Cylinder Waterloo Boy tractor


this thread has 24 replies and has been viewed 9042 times

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 12-09-2017, 02:23:00 PM
FWurth's Avatar
FWurth FWurth is offline
One Millionth Post
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Freeburg, Illinois, USA
Posts: 5,855
Thanks: 7,000
Thanked 5,129 Times in 2,701 Posts
Images: 4
Default Re: Early 4 Cylinder Waterloo Boy tractor

Just a reminder on your post Paul, You mention something about Deere working on the 2 cyl version of the early Waterloo Boy in question. Deere was not involved in any way with the Waterloo company till their purchase of the company much later in 1919?. Louis Witry was the designer of the waterloo Boy and was started on the Bathtub D before the Deere involvement. Witry stayed on with Deere and continued to work on the D development.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to FWurth For This Post:
Sponsored Links
  #22  
Old 12-09-2017, 03:07:45 PM
Paul Searl's Avatar
Paul Searl Paul Searl is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Stockton, Illinois
Posts: 1,092
Thanks: 1,577
Thanked 3,774 Times in 756 Posts
Default Re: Early 4 Cylinder Waterloo Boy tractor

good catch, I changed it. Witry appears to have been involved with the L and LA which became the R, so probably the C and H as well. What makes it interesting is that it puts the 2 cylinder earlier in development than most modern sources give credit for. It was being worked on at the same time as the 4 cylinder and NOT after the 4 cylinder was proven a failure. Witry claimed he knew he could do better than Parkhurst, so he must have seen fatal flaws in the 4 cylinder from the start. What has me really scratching my head is based on direct advertising:
1. the 4 cylinder debuted in both tracked and untracked versions in 1912 at the same time
2. most modern sources claim the tracked version that Leavitt developed was for the 25hp. this would have had to be the 2 cylinder. I have yet to find any pictures of a 2 cylinder Waterloo with tracks. EVERY photo used for Leavitts crawler is the 4 cylinder 30.
3. According to an account by Witry, Leavitt wasn't hired until 1913, which would be months after the caterpiller 30 was already advertised.
4. in 1913 all three sizes were advertized as caterpillars (15 & 25 2 cylinders, 4 cylinder 30).
5. Did Leavitt develop the 30's tracks? if not, who did? Parkhurst? If Leavitt, when was he actually hired?
6. Were the 15 and 25 tracked versions ever actually built? the 15 would have been the L, which only 2 were apparently built or would it have been the L-A, which a 3 wheel version was tried and a 4 wheel version offered?
7. was the 25 ever actually built beyond a prototype or even a mockup?
8. some accounts say Leavitt redesigned the 4 cylinder INTO a crawler called the Never Slip. since it was already offered in 1912, Before Leavitt was supposedly hired, did Leavitt redesign the crawler tracks? or, are modern authors confusing the 25 and the 30?
9. Toms brochure lists 12-30 for the 4 cylinder. By Winnipeg 1913, they were being advertised as 15-30. the pictures Rick posted of the actual tractors match Toms brochure very well from what i can make out, which match the most commonly used stock photos for the never slip. So, if Leavitt redesigned the track system, was the 4 cylinder already on the way out and we have no evidence of the redesign?

Lots of questions and inconsistencies, which is no surprise looking through over 100 years of lost history and a decided lack of first person sources.

//edit: I have since found one more piece of the puzzle. The "Big Chief" tractor was built by engineers at Associated Manufacturing Company, and on November 5, 1910, the Associated owned foundry at 300 Miles Street was incorporated and was named the Waterloo Foundry Company. Associated then tried to sell the foundry and the Big Chief tractor as a package. On Oct 12, 1911, Waterloo purchased the foundry and the prototype Big Chief, which was considered unsalable in its current form. The original Deed Record of the purchase was: The Waterloo Foundry Company for the sum of “One Dollar ($1.00) and other valuable consideration.” The location of the recorded site was the same spot the Waterloo Gasoline Engine Company erected its “B” Building, the building the Waterloo Boy Tractors were manufactured. Witry took the prototype Big Chief to a garage in back of his house and worked on it, where it became the model L. This would have been the 2 plow tractor mentioned in the 1912 article.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Big Chief.jpg
Views:	126
Size:	34.2 KB
ID:	298012  

Last edited by Paul Searl; 12-09-2017 at 06:56:18 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to Paul Searl For This Post:
  #23  
Old 12-11-2017, 09:40:44 PM
Paul Searl's Avatar
Paul Searl Paul Searl is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Stockton, Illinois
Posts: 1,092
Thanks: 1,577
Thanked 3,774 Times in 756 Posts
Default Re: Early 4 Cylinder Waterloo Boy tractor

These two actual photos were posted on facebook today, I had never seen them before. the one looks like it may have come from a book?
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	25300012_10212766433569381_3920700852927959065_o.jpg
Views:	325
Size:	95.9 KB
ID:	298142   Click image for larger version

Name:	25073416_10212765322941616_6322601804342264896_o.jpg
Views:	316
Size:	52.3 KB
ID:	298143  
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 12-12-2017, 02:05:14 PM
Kelly Barnett's Avatar
Kelly Barnett Kelly Barnett is offline
Registered-III
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Nashua, Iowa USA
Posts: 592
Thanks: 220
Thanked 1,517 Times in 296 Posts
Images: 15
Default Re: Early 4 Cylinder Waterloo Boy tractor

Paul, I love vintage photos. If you look closely to the one on the left it shows a smaller tracked unit. It evidently is outside the erection building for some testing. The canopy is not done on it and the unit is chained to the tree behind it to put a pull / load test to it. Wonder what they figured out from that test? Hope the chain and tree were in good shape to give a good dead pull test.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Kelly Barnett For This Post:
  #25  
Old 01-08-2018, 09:59:22 PM
retired wrench retired wrench is offline
Registered
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Monticello, Indiana
Posts: 6
Thanks: 0
Thanked 5 Times in 3 Posts
Default Re: Early 4 cyl Waterloo Boy tractor

He this tractor at Portland In a couple years ago,,,running.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to retired wrench For This Post:
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

F o r u m Jump

Similar Threads Chosen at Random
Thread Thread Starter F o r u m Replies Last Post
Early Waterloo Contract engine, Waterloo Gasoline Engine Co. or Waterloo Boy? Jim Martin Antique Gas Engine Discussion 2 09-03-2014 07:58:57 AM
Unkown early two cylinder opposed engine maybe from a tractor?. Nathan K. Antique Steel Wheel Tractors - Old Iron Lugs and Cleats 6 12-19-2013 09:53:09 PM
Early Waterloo Engine John Merry Antique Gas Engine Discussion 22 11-20-2010 10:32:44 PM
Early Waterloo Head? Jim Martin Antique Gas Engine Discussion 2 09-12-2010 08:21:09 PM
Early Waterloo Mike Buck Antique Gas Engine Discussion 5 12-24-2007 01:36:15 AM


Use "Ctrl" mouse wheel to change screen size.
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:49:00 AM.

Smokstak and Enginads site search!


All use is subject to our TERMS OF SERVICE
SMOKSTAK® is a Registered Trade Mark - A Community of Antique Engine Enthusiasts
Copyright © 2000 - 2016 by Harry Matthews P.O. Box 5612 - Sarasota, FL 34277