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Antique Steel Wheel Tractors - Old Iron Lugs and Cleats Photos and information about antique steel wheeled farm tractors. This is where to find the heaviest of Old Iron tractors.

Antique Steel Wheel Tractors - Old Iron Lugs and Cleats

McCormick WK-40 FBB to Red Diamond RePower


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  #61  
Old 01-14-2015, 12:18:03 AM
Mark Schneider Mark Schneider is offline
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Default Re: McCormick WK-40 FBB to Red Diamond RePower

More progress on the exhaust manifold modification.
#1...I took a die grinder and removed the part of the control valve rod and guide that was on the inside of the exhaust "box". Note the little steps that have been cut on either side.
#2...I fabricated this steel plate and positioned it so the exhaust would be kept out of the intake preheat box. The steps will hold it in place when the manifolds are bolted together.
#3...I wasn't real keen on the 2 1/2" ID of the exhaust flange for a laboring 406 engine so I compromised between it and the truck exhaust at 3 1/2" ID. The port opened up quite easily with a die grinder to 3" ID which has about 30% more area than the stock flange had.
#4...A view down the exhaust flange after modification completion. It looks like it should have better flow and lower EGT's then the stock set up. I look forward to trying it out. Still to come is a fabricated exhaust neck with a 3" ID. Am checking into different gasket thicknesses to deal with the .040" gap I have between the manifolds in the center position.
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Last edited by Mark Schneider; 01-14-2015 at 10:18:18 AM.
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Old 01-18-2015, 10:06:28 PM
Mark Schneider Mark Schneider is offline
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Default Re: McCormick WK-40 FBB to Red Diamond RePower

I fabricated a new exhaust neck using 1/2" plate steel for the flange and common 3''pipe for the outlet. The OD is 3 1/2" and the plan is to mount a chrome truck turnout for an exhaust pipe which would be a rare display of vanity on our part! When resurfacing the intake to exhaust manifold surfaces I had to stop before things really cleaned up. Note the shiny spots on the flange area...much more probably will cause port alignment problems. If given the opportunity to work on one of these assemblies be sure to check the core plugs on the bottom of the preheat box by the carb. Mine were paper thin.
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  #63  
Old 01-26-2015, 12:15:36 AM
Mark Schneider Mark Schneider is offline
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Default Re: McCormick WK-40 FBB to Red Diamond RePower

I'll be the first to admit that I was not excited about pulling out the transmission to clean the bottom of the gear housing but it worked out for the best. When I removed the input shaft I found there was nothing left of the seal except the spring bouncing around. Remember the discussion about the transmission "reduction shaft" and "constant mesh shaft" back in posts #27,#33, and #37? I had no idea as to the novelty of what was being discussed as I thought all transmissions contained these components more or less. Upon the removal of the gear box it became apparent to me what had been discussed. The 6 cylinder WK-W-40 tractors have a third transmission shaft installed making it a "double" reduction gearbox. This nifty set up allowed IHC to make use of the 22-36 transmission design with an engine that was running 50% faster. The gear whine that was mentioned must have come from the fact that the front set of gears are an overdrive set which drives an underdrive set on the rear of the box.
Here's how the numbers come out on the 3 spd I have:
Front gear set----.806 overdrive
Rear gear set----1.947 underdrive for a net primary gear reduction of 1.57 to 1.....that is 1.57 engine revolutions to 1 of the trans. top shaft.
More interesting math....W-40 1600 rpm divided by 22-36 1050 rpm = 1.52
So it is fairly easy to see that IHC was trying to match the ground speed of the 22-36's. In researching the parts book there are no less than four 3 spd transmission configurations...1 each for the 1600 and 1750 rpm ratings and 1 each for their respective High Speed (7.5 mph) options. The 1750 rpm transmissions use a primary reduction of 1.72 to 1 which undoubtedly helped increase the drawbar pull in the second Nebraska test along with the bump of 150 engine rpms.
After seeing the wretched condition of the tranny seal I decided to replace all the chassis oil seals. This lead to a disastrous attempt to remove a rear wheel which did not end well. So have been replacing seals and cleaning the chassis with more disassembly(!) in preparation for some paint.
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  #64  
Old 01-26-2015, 12:06:37 PM
Brasherman Brasherman is offline
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Default Re: McCormick WK-40 FBB to Red Diamond RePower

What happened in trying to remove the rear wheel assembly? Just curious as to whether there is some knowledge to be gleaned or only catastrophe.
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Old 01-30-2015, 01:09:57 AM
Mark Schneider Mark Schneider is offline
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Default Re: McCormick WK-40 FBB to Red Diamond RePower

Ahh yes the rear wheel removal gone bad......... When I saw that the leather in the transmission input shaft seal had disintegrated I decided to renew all the chassis oil seals. With the plans for plowing and a paint job I didn't want rear end oil oozing out during operation. As fate would have it when it came time to renew the axle seals I got the easy side first. I was able to get those big axle nuts off with a little heat and a 3 ft pipe wrench. With the left wheel jacked up I put a 3 ton hydraulic jack between the rear end housing and the inside wheel flange and put pressure on the wheel. It slid right off with no problem. Tried the same set up on the right side and the wheel would not budge. I installed a zerk in the center of the wheel hub and attempted to force oil into the splines with a grease gun...no dice. I heated the hub with a LP torch cutting tip as hot as it would go for 40 minutes and added a 4 ton jack on the opposite side...still nothing and now I am in worse shape because I have cooked whatever was left of the axle seals and the wheel has to come off no matter what. I let this part of the project sit for a day or so and thought about my options...not many! I could remove the wheel with the axle attached but knew of no local press big enough to chuck the 50" wheel into. It was then I thought of another way to force oil in the hub by cutting an o-ring groove on the back side of the nut and installing a zerk on the front side. I did the fabrication and installed the nut with a heavy o-ring which allowed me to pump ATF into hub through the ends of the splines. I had good vibes when I saw oil come out the other end of the hub but unfortunately that was to be short lived....
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  #66  
Old 01-30-2015, 08:31:03 PM
J Ware J Ware is offline
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Default Re: McCormick WK-40 FBB to Red Diamond RePower

Good luck Mark, my great uncle restored a 10-20 yrs. ago and the axle was stuck in the wheel. They put it in a 50 ton press and couldn't get it to move. Hope yours works out better. Jim
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  #67  
Old 01-30-2015, 08:54:32 PM
halcon halcon is online now
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Default Re: McCormick WK-40 FBB to Red Diamond RePower

Mark all there is for a seal is a felt washer which really is nt very effective, as an oil seal, it is more to exclude dirt than any thing. If the transmission is not over filled or the tractor run on steep slopes it would likely not bother. corroded splines can be nearly imposible to separate. Maybe use the lever principal.
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Old 01-31-2015, 08:10:57 PM
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Default Re: McCormick WK-40 FBB to Red Diamond RePower

Quote:
Originally Posted by halcon View Post
Mark all there is for a seal is a felt washer which really is nt very effective, as an oil seal, it is more to exclude dirt than any thing. If the transmission is not over filled or the tractor run on steep slopes it would likely not bother. corroded splines can be nearly imposible to separate. Maybe use the lever principal.
The one thing that is worse than lack of information is WRONG information and that is what I gave you. My first mistake was using my memory instead of the parts book. I m sorry I hope it didn't do you harm. there are seals on that axel AND a felt washer. The later 15-30--22-36 had only the felt. the oil level is about the same on the W40 as the 15-30 maybe if you were to run it and use it it might loosen up now that you got oil forced into it. I don't think it would leak a great deal.
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Old 01-31-2015, 09:13:16 PM
J Ware J Ware is offline
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Default Re: McCormick WK-40 FBB to Red Diamond RePower

An older gentleman told how they had trouble keeping wheels tight on some tractors and they would put cyanide on them to rust them tight, he said they never loosen up again. Maybe some did that to this wheel. Jim
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Old 01-31-2015, 09:15:57 PM
Mark Schneider Mark Schneider is offline
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Default Re: McCormick WK-40 FBB to Red Diamond RePower

halcon...No harm done. I knew about the W-40 axle seal set up. Thanks for your input.
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  #71  
Old 01-31-2015, 09:35:06 PM
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Default Re: McCormick WK-40 FBB to Red Diamond RePower

I have heard similar stories about not being able to press hubs off axles on W-9 tractors. One shop actually pushed the center right out of the casting. When Wendel Kelch did my early WD-40, the wheels had to be come off and they had to not be damaged as they were unique to that tractor (first 3 tractors, really). He put weed burners on the hub and walked off and left it. I don't know how many cycles he ran of heating and cooling but I'm pretty sure the main problem was that the oil seal had NOT leaked on that tractor. The axles fit the wheels tight enough that a little dry rust is as good as a weld. Let that rust get a little moisture (penetrating oil, water, etc) and it will swell and make the fit even tighter. I think Wendell just ran the heat until the rust was dehydrated. When the wheel did come off, nothing but iron oxide powder between the axle and the hub.

One nice thing about these tractors is that the axle, wheel and all, can be pulled by removing the axle bearing retainer bolts. The differential gear is supported by an entirely separate set of bearings so as long as the axle housing stays behind, you are okay. Once off, you still have the issue of finding a press that can do the job and a method for supporting the hub as close to the axle as possible.

If anyone ever comes up with a sure fire way to pull these wheels, I think we'd all owe them a debt of gratitude!
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  #72  
Old 02-01-2015, 05:50:31 PM
Mark Schneider Mark Schneider is offline
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Default Re: McCormick WK-40 FBB to Red Diamond RePower

And so I would give this frozen wheel hub a few shots of ATF whenever I happened to be walking by it. It began to dawn on me toward the end of a weeks time that the benefit of the spreading pool of oil under the wheel was probably more psychological than practical because the oil would follow the path of least resistance and it would be unlikely to deviate much from that route. I made some 2x6 spacers and drove them between the hub flanges and went back to the jacks...this time a 12 and 8 ton and put the pressure to it. Heard a big "pop" and looked to see how how far the hub had moved....it had't! I had just succeeded in breaking the inner flange of the wheel hub which transferred my steel rear wheel into the "mostly junk" category. It was a surreal moment when I took the torch and cut the spokes off to remove the outer rim. I found if I turned the broken side of the hub up that I could drive on the inside of the outer flange with a sledge hammer which I did until it broke off...still no hub movement! The next procedure involved taking a 4 1/2" angle grinder with a cutting wheel and making a slit across the face of the hub which I cracked open with a hammer and chisel. I squirted in some oil and finally was able to move it with the hammer. When I got done removing it the flanges were mostly gone and the hub was in two pieces. What a job!

This unfortunate incident doesn't really seriously impact the progress of the RePower very much as we were going to outfit it with rubber tires using the rear W-40 cast centers and front cut off's off our burnt parts tractor. In hindsight (always 20/20 ) I should have removed the steel wheel/axle assembly and reinstalled an axle out of our parts tractor. That would have left us with a set of wheels to sell and the next guy could have figured out what to do about the stuck axle. When I removed the steel wheel rim I cut the spokes a long as possible so will be looking for a 15-30 cut off hub with a rotted rim to put together a useable rear steel wheel although not as nice as original.

It never occurred to me that it would be so tight!
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Last edited by Mark Schneider; 02-01-2015 at 09:32:37 PM.
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Old 02-01-2015, 06:22:26 PM
Norm Johnston Norm Johnston is offline
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Default Re: McCormick WK-40 FBB to Red Diamond RePower

When it fially came away was it purely rust retainiung the wheel hub? sometimes the splines get worn and rotate slightly and form a stepped section that locks the spline, when this happens sometimes there is a little movement visible sometimes not and it is difficult rotating the hub to find the correct alignment. Good to know you have alternate wheels for your tractor.
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Old 02-01-2015, 08:38:07 PM
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Default Re: McCormick WK-40 FBB to Red Diamond RePower

We just hauled in a 27 15-30 with the keyed hub. It had been cut down and on rubber back in the day. Unfortunately they had calcium in the tires and the one rim has completely disappeared with most of the spokes. I really don't think the hub can any better than Mark's. I need to either find another 28in deep center rim or find some steel cutoffs to weld to the hub. Funny thing is the old tire was still useable, well almost, before someone cut the side wall out.
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Old 02-01-2015, 10:09:02 PM
Mark Schneider Mark Schneider is offline
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Default Re: McCormick WK-40 FBB to Red Diamond RePower

Quote:
Originally Posted by Norm Johnston View Post
When it fially came away was it purely rust retainiung the wheel hub?
When I cleaned up the axle the was a fair amount of rust pitting about 4" in from the nut. Also the bottoms of a the axle splines were full of a caked in dirt that could be peeled out with a screwdriver....I suspect that per Eric Best I may have made things worse by soaking the hub in oil. There was some spline wear also that may have added to the problem. I hadn't considered that angle on the situation.
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Old 02-02-2015, 06:49:11 AM
AUSSIE TD-40 AUSSIE TD-40 is offline
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Default Re: McCormick WK-40 FBB to Red Diamond RePower

I think you have helped a few us that need to get wheels off 22-36's and WD-40 and 40K's. Sorry that you had to do that to your's to show us tho The way I have done it was to sit a 30 ton jack on the axel and use threaded rod back behind the hub, but looking at yours the next one I will do I would now block the center of the hub with solid steel bars to spread the load and pull against the inside hub, plus oil and heat first. lots easier to do if you take the wheel and axel off the tub and lay it down with blocks of wood under the rim. Have a WD-40 here with a cracked hub on the inside that has been welded up.

thanks from Jake
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Old 02-02-2015, 03:39:47 PM
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Default Re: McCormick WK-40 FBB to Red Diamond RePower

I had thought about this before and came up with an idea while working on some stubborn LS chevy exhaust manifold nuts, but am not sure how to implement it. The key problem is that things expand when heated, for the most part. The reality is that we need to shrink them to get them apart, but the torch works by trying to make two (often different) metals expand at a different rate so as to break the adhesion between them.

I always thought it would be better to cryogenically freeze the hub and shaft, to shrink them as much as possible for separation. I do not know what you could use to do this safely, effectively, and economically, but it was just a thought.
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Old 02-02-2015, 05:44:14 PM
Norm Johnston Norm Johnston is offline
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Default Re: McCormick WK-40 FBB to Red Diamond RePower

I have at times used liquid nitrogen to freeze components to assist removal, this is easily done with the likes of a piston siezed in a block where you can put hot water in the block to expand it and the turn it up side down and put the liquid nitrogen in the piston to shrink it, but some what difficult to do with the hub / rear axle situation where getting the Liquid nitrogen into the axle only is very limited, the time it takes to heat the wheel hub the axle usually expands also, the only hope with this is the expansion crushes the rust thereby helping to free the hub.
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Old 02-02-2015, 08:05:55 PM
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Default Re: McCormick WK-40 FBB to Red Diamond RePower

Years ago I bought a pair of 15-30 keyed rears with the axles still in them.
I have also had tough rears, broke some too. Spreading out the area does help when pulling.
Last time was on a C Case, I had a massive puller and plenty of heat to no avail. On the internet someone said to hit the end of the axle with as big a hammer as I could find "like you mean business." Tapered axle, but it worked good.
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Old 02-02-2015, 11:48:21 PM
Mark Schneider Mark Schneider is offline
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Default Re: McCormick WK-40 FBB to Red Diamond RePower

And now to discuss why I went through all that misery to remove the right (furrow) rear wheel. The later 22-36 (serial # 150013 and up) rear axle used a conventional lip seal and felt washer and the outer bearings were lubed via oil migration from the rear end housing. As long as the "tub" is full of oil there is no shortage of lube for the axle bearings. However the W-40 is a different set up...for whatever reason IHC installed an inner axle seal which left the outer axle bearings in a "dry box" on the end of the axle. Per IHC lube instructions rear end oil was to be injected daily through the zerk provided. No info as to the quantity to be used.

So I ask the W-40, WD-40 owners out there... is there any oil in the axles of the units that you have? There is no sight plug to verify if indeed any oil remains. There was no oil in mine...only a layer of hardened goo. Injecting heavy grease won't work as the lube is injected on the outside of the outer bearing and must flow through the outer bearing and puddle in the middle of the Timkens in order for the inner bearing to get oiled. This puddle would probably contain a pint of oil or so. So if I put this wheel in the plow furrow with a bad axle seal how long can I plow before I loose my pint of axle oil? I don't know either but probably not long.

I found this a really poor design and took the liberty to make some small changes. I replaced the two outer axle seals and felt washer with one new seal installed the right direction between the wear grooves on the seal race. The factory zerk was capped off and a new 1/4" zerk was installed in the rear of the axle housing so that lubricant could be installed in between the bearings in the "puddle" area. I then pumped in 2 tubes of JD Corn Head Grease per side. This is a semi-fluid grease that is loose enough to flow into the roller bearings but thick enough to resist running out of marginal seal applications. I've used this stuff before with good success.

After the fight with this frozen hub I was a bit apprehensive about removing the hub centers form the parts tractor. After removing the axle nuts both hubs slid off by hand...for which I was very thankful!
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