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Solar and Wind Power for Home, Farm & Industry

Finally, solar and wind power are not intermittent!


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  #21  
Old 02-13-2016, 07:10:18 PM
Power Power is offline
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Default Re: Finally, solar and wind power are not intermittent!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scotty 2 View Post
Output of one generator is measured in kW and the other is in MW. I'd love to read about a generator, who's output is measured in MW, that can be brought on line (including starting) in seconds or even minutes.
ROFL!
How about hours?
If it is a steam turbine (nuke powered, coal, oil, gas). Gotta warm unit up gradually so as not to warp rotor, and when shutting down, it is on turning gear for DAYS to prevent rotor warping.

The bigger the unit, the more mass that has to be slowly brought up to temperature, and we have not considered the time it takes to get the plant fired up and generating steam.
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Old 02-13-2016, 08:49:10 PM
Warpspeed Warpspeed is offline
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Default Re: Finally, solar and wind power are not intermittent!

I remember back in about 1965 as a young trainee telecoms technician going to visit the largest city telephone exchange here in Melbourne (Australia).

They had a high powered no break UPS system without any electronics at all.
A large three phase induction motor drove an eight ton flywheel mounted in a pit, which in turn drove a three phase alternator that provided all the ac power for the exchange.

There was also an immense 50 volt lead acid battery, but much equipment in the exchange still ran off ac mains power only, so uninterrupted ac power was still required.

On the same shaft, isolated by a clutch was an enormous diesel engine always kept at operating temperature and full oil pressure. If the mains failed, the clutch engaged and the diesel clattered into instant action.

This had already been in operation for a great many years, so it was very old technology even then.
Very clever, and very simple.

It looked pretty large, but it was a very long time ago, so I cannot even guess at the power rating.
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  #23  
Old 02-14-2016, 01:01:03 AM
Ken Karrow Ken Karrow is offline
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Default Re: Finally, solar and wind power are not intermittent!

Comment to warpspeed - very interesting
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Old 02-14-2016, 01:49:38 AM
Scotty 2 Scotty 2 is offline
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Default Re: Finally, solar and wind power are not intermittent!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Power View Post
ROFL!
How about hours?
If it is a steam turbine (nuke powered, coal, oil, gas). Gotta warm unit up gradually so as not to warp rotor, and when shutting down, it is on turning gear for DAYS to prevent rotor warping..
I have to admit I had a little chuckle reading about running a decent genny up to speed in a matter of minutes. Imagine the torque that would have to be involved to spin one up in minutes.
Ours were rarely run down for any reason other then maintenance because of the time, hassles and very possible damage.
Fair enough I worked in a small power station (20MW coal) last century and things change, but I would love to read about something that could be run up in a matter of minutes.

Was the analogy with the moped/lawn mower and ocean liner OK?

Cheers Scott
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Old 02-14-2016, 02:14:34 AM
BobRR BobRR is offline
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Default Re: Finally, solar and wind power are not intermittent!

Look up GE J920 engine/generator. They claim 5min. start up. Bob
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Old 02-14-2016, 02:47:40 AM
Tim0477 Tim0477 is offline
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Default Re: Finally, solar and wind power are not intermittent!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxGCr0VuRCI

10MW output and supposedly a 5 min startup time. Maybe Gunny can comment if that is a realistic figure as I think he works with those monsters.

Tim
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Old 02-14-2016, 05:14:57 AM
Scotty 2 Scotty 2 is offline
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Default Re: Finally, solar and wind power are not intermittent!

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobRR View Post
Look up GE J920 engine/generator. They claim 5min. start up. Bob
Hello
The literature I read stated capable of a quick start up time and that was under multiple engine configuration.
I wonder exactly what the conditions are for a start up time of 5 minutes?
Has anyone found a link where it states the start up time and under what conditions?
Please provide references.

In the video they state 5 minute start up time under multiple configuration at about 1.44 or so. My question would be under what conditions and what do they class as start up? Is that from a standing start or rolling start?


Thanks Scott
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Old 02-23-2016, 12:02:51 AM
Larry Rusch Larry Rusch is offline
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Default Re: Finally, solar and wind power are not intermittent!

"Output of one generator is measured in kW and the other is in MW. I'd love to read about a generator, who's output is measured in MW, that can be brought on line (including starting) in seconds or even minutes."

Some time ago, as a boy engineer, I ran a facility that had 3516 Cats @1750 kw (that's 1.75 MW) backing a pass thru UPS. Power up to full load in 9 seconds.
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  #29  
Old 02-23-2016, 01:17:33 AM
len k len k is offline
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Default Re: Finally, solar and wind power are not intermittent!

Problem is even that is likely too long to prevent a multistate cascading grid outage if a large % of power is sourced from intermittent solar/wind power.
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