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unknown 6hp?


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  #1  
Old 11-26-2004, 11:09:47 PM
Chad Johnson Chad Johnson is offline
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Default unknown 6hp?

I bought this thinking it was a T&M because of the valve latch up, but I've been told by some who know more than me that T&M never built a ported exhaust.
It could be a Gray as it looks just like the Gray "Big Six" but I have 2 catalog reprints and both of them claim "Gray casts their name in every engine we build".
The entry in the BYB for Burkett looks very similar but with a cam mounted governor, besides there are only 2 pictures and I'm sure there were some changes in the production run.

Does anybody KNOW what this is?
Maybe seen a nice original with a name on it?
Maybe you have one too and are wondering?

It doesn't have any holes for an ID plate.
6" X 8" bore and stroke
34" flywheels
no serial # I can find
ported exhaust cast into the bottom of the cylinder that leads to the exhaust up front.
bolt on rocker arm tower
fuel tank in the base
oil wells, not greasers
and a casting # on the cam "C 66" but nothing else

Thanks
Chad
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  #2  
Old 11-26-2004, 11:32:24 PM
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Ackman Ackman is offline
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Default Re: unknown 6hp?

I don't know what make your engine is, but the statement that GRAY cast thier name in "every" engine they built, I do NOT belive to be true. There was an engine at the Albany, MN show, a couple years ago, that had a DAN PATCH tag on it. DAN PATCH never built any engines, of thier own...this engine was definately a GRAY built engine & the logo was NOT cast anywhere on the engine. Hope this helps!
  #3  
Old 11-27-2004, 01:20:54 AM
Bill Schaller Bill Schaller is offline
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Default Re: unknown 6hp?

i have seen plenty of grays without the name cast in.
  #4  
Old 11-27-2004, 09:56:54 AM
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Bill Decker Bill Decker is offline
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Default Re: unknown 6hp?

Definitely a Gray. Has the tell tale mixer and the little reservoir covers that go on the crank mains. Got anymore pics? Tom Green would like to have it added to his webpage.
  #5  
Old 11-27-2004, 10:29:16 AM
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Bill Decker Bill Decker is offline
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Default Re: unknown 6hp?

One other thing, sometimes the serial # can be found on top the flange area between the head and the hopper. If you know of a machinist that is willing to make the oil well covers at a reasonable price, I could use 2 for my 4hp.
  #6  
Old 11-27-2004, 09:16:26 PM
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Chuck Moss Chuck Moss is offline
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Default Re: unknown 6hp?

Chad,

It sure looks like a Gray to me. If you will look over Tom Green's website which was already mentioned in this thread and you're already on you can find a number match on the cam. In particular, if you look at the 1913 manual that is posted on http://www.geocities.com/baja/canyon...direction.html
and then go to page 22 of the manual, you will see in the lower right corner (by the "6X8 Engine Parts" title block") a sketch of the cam & cam gear. Next to it it says "#C66" which is the number you called out in your posting. It is hard to read on the website, but I have a better hard copy and it is clear. On Page 23 you can see it listed as "C-66A Gear with Cam".

The title block on page 22 is dated in 1911, and says it is a motor type C, but the caption says it is a "Diagram of Parts for 6HP Model J". My guess is that "Motor Type C" and the C prefix on the finding numbers is what "engineering" called the 6HP, marketing called it a J model first, and then with a governor update started calling is a L model, sometime around 1913.

If not built by Gray as a Gray, it sure looks like it was built by Gray for somebody else, or by somebody else (T&M?) who might have also been building engines for Gray. It looks to me that Gray & T&M were either sharing production or design in the 1911, 1912 time period, and then it looks like in the 1913 time frame Gray introduced more of their own design, starting the the 4HP & 2 1/2 G and moving down in HP replacing the J designs in the next few years.

Flywheel diameter of 34 inches, bore & stroke match too.

One thing in your picture that catches my eye as different than the Gray brochure(s) is that the front of your base casting looks pretty much square, but the brochures show a sweeping curved forward surface. BUT, the diagrams in the repair manuals looks square. The brochure may have had some artist help???

I concur with the other guys who have noted that although the brochures (early ones?) say all Gray engines have the name cast on the side, it is obvious that as time went on that was not always true. Some have "Gray" on both sides, some one side, and some not at all. Nameplates were not there, at least on the early engines. Late in the game (1916 ish?) Gray was buying Nelson engines and they typically had name tags.

Aloha,
Chuck
  #7  
Old 11-27-2004, 11:43:34 PM
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Chuck Moss Chuck Moss is offline
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Default Re: unknown 6hp?

Hi Chad, me again,,,,

It took me awhile, but I finally rediscovered some information on the "ported exhaust" on the Gray "Big Six". If you look at http://www.geocities.com/baja/canyon...log9/pg12.html on Tom Green's website you will see a write up on the "Auxillary Exhaust Passage" and see it on the bottom of the swung open head. This is in catalog number 9 which appears to have been issued in 1912.

If you look at the equivalent blurb for the Big Six in the 1913 catalog you will see that the discussion on the Auxillary Exhaust Passage has been dropped, and the picture of the head (and block) changed! http://www.geocities.com/baja/canyon...log/part10.pdf

So,,, my best guess year of manufacture on your engine is between 1911 (based on date on parts list) and 1912 (based on 1913 catalog dropping the Auxillary Exhaust Passage).

Aloha,
Chuck
  #8  
Old 11-28-2004, 11:46:15 AM
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Default Re: unknown 6hp?

Hi Chad I`m not sure what you got but it does look like a gray or a Burkett made in Columbus, Ohio. The base is a little taller on the Burkett.

-nick
rowland@willard-oh.com
http://rowland2.20megsfree.com
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  #9  
Old 11-28-2004, 11:48:40 AM
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Default Re: unknown 6hp?

Here`s the nameplate.


-nick
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  #10  
Old 11-28-2004, 01:44:42 PM
Raymond Collier Raymond Collier is offline
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Photo Re: unknown 6hp?

Could this engine be a Burkett?
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