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Vintage Diesel and Oil Engines Fairbanks Morse, Lister, Petter, Witte and other pump injected Diesel oil engines.

Vintage Diesel and Oil Engines

P&H Diesel Engine (387) circa 1950's

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Old 02-02-2010, 09:30:17 AM
iceslider iceslider is offline
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Default Re: P&H Diesel Engine (387) circa 1950's

Thanks,Bud.I tried Hatch and Kirk back in the 1990's,when I had my first brush with one.They got rid of most of the orphan smaller engine parts,like the Hill,some P&H,and some guy out west bought all of the Sheppard stuff.The old timer I worked with said there was a place in Florida,I searched all over to no avail.I figure somebody must have something.There was a guy in Malden,Mass. when I was a kid,was an old merchant marine diesel man,had all the odd 1930's up diesel stuff packed to the ceiling.I,mean,he had H.O.R.,Fairbanks,Enterprise,Macintosh&Seymour,most all of the old Hercules and Buda Lanova diesel,any name I could think of,he had parts for and would talk for hours.Nice old man,teach you the world,but time wasn't on his side.He would have had stuff,it is all gone.
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Old 02-03-2010, 12:07:41 AM
enginenut2 enginenut2 is offline
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Default Re: P&H Diesel Engine (387) circa 1950's

P&H also tried to push the big 6 cyl version as a truck engine in the early 60's
I have several advertisements showing this effort and in my 1959 issue of "Diesel Engine Catalog" the Harnischfeger ads show a 4 cyl engine carrying a turbocharger feeding the roots blower and they state that the output will be increased by 30%.Also the full line of these engines were listed by Fairbanks-Morse in this issue called a model 49B4 1/2--they were probably trying to find some greater exposure through F-M network.Also in the F-M ad the listings chart shows the 4 and 6 cyl engines available as twin units-driving through a common output shaft.
Early versions of these engine used individual injection pumps for each cyl--vertically mounted on the side of the crankcase with the rack lying near full length of the engine.What a nightmare it must have been to balance the units when servicing was needed but at least they were enclosed in a tube not out in the open like my Hill engine.The Harnischfegers pictured in the later 50's were shown with a Roosa Master rotary pump.
Advertisements for the P&H nearly always bragged about the ability to change out a cylinder in about 40 minutes if it became necessary.The crankcase was of aluminum with the cylinder assembly complete with water jacket dropped down into it.The cyl head was screwed onto the cylinder and used 1 large ex valve unlike the Jimmy which was using 2 or 4 at the time.The cyl and head assembly would have been screwed together before fitting to the crankcase.
Pictures of this piston to rod attachment show the end of the rod being quite large and shaped like a mushroom.
It sure would have been hard to compete with GM in those days with their extensive dealer network and engines being so easily adapted various machine designs.
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Old 02-03-2010, 10:39:05 AM
iceslider iceslider is offline
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Default Re: P&H Diesel Engine (387) circa 1950's

They did indeed pushed the 4 and 6 cylinder units for on highway use.Towards the end in the '60's,they were pushing them in Ford C and H series cabover engine trucks.They did sel a fair amount of them,I recon few survived without being repowered.There was reported to be an upstate New York dairy hauler who was sold into them by a salesman,and ignored all advice against buying them.They were in Autocar tractors,and the story goes they bankrupted him...The 387 in the 255a has separate unit pumps,built in 1954,we had a couple of 400hz military gensets once that had 387's with Roosa-Master pumps built in 1958.Kind of makes sense,because the Roosa-Master pump was introduced to Hercules around 1954.
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Old 02-04-2010, 09:11:06 PM
Wayne 440 Wayne 440 is offline
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Default Re: P&H Diesel Engine (387) circa 1950's

About 10 years ago I saw a genset powered by a 6 cylinder P&H, sitting in a garage at a government building. The engine was bright red, had two small roots type blowers on the side and if I recall correctly a rotary type injector pump.

The entire unit looked brand new, but there were obvious signs that it had run for at least a few hours at some point. When I returned some months later, I found it had been removed, but could not determine where it went. I guess the odds are pretty good that it went to the scrapyard.
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Old 03-06-2010, 10:59:37 AM
Jim Rankin Jim Rankin is offline
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Default Re: P&H Diesel Engine (387) circa 1950's

I hate to see this thread now.

Our 255ATC P&H went to the scrapper a few months ago with a perfectly running 3 cylinder in the crane and a partially disassembled 4 cylinder in the truck carrier. We got it used and the 4 cylinder had the typical history of getting water in the oil, but when I got it running, it was blowing exhaust back into the radiator. I removed a jug and found that it had frozen and burst the water jacket in the "head". The crack was visible through the exhaust port.

I wanted to save it for the truck (10 wheel drive chasis), but got over ruled and the dairy business is just too tight to not turn dead iron into live money. Well, I guess it didn't turn into money, we got a CAT DW20 water tanker in exchange for it.

I still have the operator's manual and parts book if anyone wants it.

Don't know what it is about scrapping stuff, we always seem to scrap something for pennies and end up buying it from somewhere else for dollars.
My rule is you never scrap anything or usable part of anything you still have a running example of. Just been bitten by this too many times. Unfortunately I am not the only one around making these decisions.
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Old 03-06-2010, 10:24:08 PM
OpposedPistone OpposedPistone is offline
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Default Re: P&H Diesel Engine (387) circa 1950's

Somewhere I have a FM model 49 brochure. I could scan and post some photos if anyone is interested. I remember that engine being quite a departure from FM practice and the P&H background makes it less of a mystery.
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Old 03-11-2010, 11:15:58 PM
Terry Welch Terry Welch is offline
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Default Re: P&H Diesel Engine (387) circa 1950's

P&H engines were built in the Crystal Lake ILL area. Our club has a P&H crane with a P&H engine in it. We have several manuals on it. Not sure of the size though. A engineer at Fairbanks told me P&H engines are like smaller versions of the larger 2 cycle Fairbanks engines. I will look the next time I am out to the park, to see what manuals we have. Maybe I can scan some pages for you.
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Old 08-12-2010, 09:07:12 PM
bob grossman bob grossman is offline
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Default Re: P&H Diesel Engine (387) circa 1950's

As to OEM installation of P&H engines in trucks...

I have an old book listing truck manufacturers and specs. There were two Hendrickson models with P&H as OEM power; one with a 4 cyl, one with a 6.

I know Peterbilt installed at least one...this belonging to McGuire Lumber Co. in Yakima WA. Years ago, the chief engineer at Peterbilt told me they installed more than one.

I saw a modern Diamond T in Florida c. 1960 that had a P&H plate on the side of the hood. I assume it was a 4 cyl. and probably factory installed.

Central Wisconsin Motor Lines had 15 new COE Fords with the 6 cyl. They were installed at the P&H factory at Crystal Lake.

Due to the light weight and power, it seems that many jumped on the bandwagon, largely with repowering. Probably many manufacturers installed a few.

I have an old Motor Transportation magazine with a FWD transfer dump on the cover. It was powered by a 4-cyl. I assume factory ionstalled.

Too bad they didn't perfect the engine to the point of being reliable. It was by far the most interesting automotive engine in its day. I'm a uniflow 2-stroke nut.
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Old 06-18-2012, 08:43:21 PM
clarkcr clarkcr is offline
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Default Re: P&H Diesel Engine (387) circa 1950's

Any luck finding information on the 387C-18? I might have something for you. I have all the sales and technical pages of the entire line.
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Old 12-31-2014, 04:56:55 AM
Jim Mullin Jim Mullin is offline
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Default Re: P&H Diesel Engine (387) circa 1950's

If you are still looking for information on the 387c-18 I can help. I have a couple of books on the p&h diesel two cycle engines. They are a instruction manual and service parts list. They were printed in January of 1956. They are applicable to the 287c-18, 387c-18, 487c-18 and 687c-18. I am new on this forum so I might take a little bit to get back to you.
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