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Hit & Miss Gas Engine Discussion

My "M" is Racing (1 1/2 McCormick Deering Engine)


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  #1  
Old 01-03-2009, 01:24:20 AM
djamatoit djamatoit is offline
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Default My "M" is Racing (1 1/2 McCormick Deering Engine)

I have a 1925 1 1/2 McCormick Deering "M". I had done a quite a bit of work on it and can't seem to get an issue resolved. It starts great...everything looks good....and then it starts to race...Badly... A couple of us have to stand on the skid and shut it down or it will bounce across the driveway. I know of (2) other guys with "M'" engines that have the same issue and they are just as frustrated as I am. Does anyone have any suggestions? Thanks in advance!
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Old 01-03-2009, 01:27:47 AM
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IronCity2006 IronCity2006 is offline
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Default Re: My "M" is Racing (1 1/2 McCormick Deering Engine)

Check the gov linkage and the butterfly rod. Check your fuel too, sometimes too little fuel will make one jump pretty good. Is your butterfly springs ok? Do you have the speed knob on the throttle rod?

I have had many IHC engine speed on me, but usally it is a sticky gov or a bad spring
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Old 01-03-2009, 01:28:33 AM
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Chris J Chris J is offline
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Default Re: My "M" is Racing (1 1/2 McCormick Deering Engine)

How worn is the horse shoe shaped govornor? That could cause a problem, ours is completly warn through on one half and paper thin on the other half, but is still working

OR

The the fuel linkedge may be gunked up and it might be sticking.
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Old 01-03-2009, 01:45:57 AM
djamatoit djamatoit is offline
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Default Re: My "M" is Racing (1 1/2 McCormick Deering Engine)

What I have done so far.....BEFORE the racing began. I have rebuilt the carb. New venturi sleeve, gasket, plug, needle valve and butterfly. The spring is original. I have set, rese and then reset again to make sure this adjustment is correct. The governor is worn but lose and operational. I have even taken the sprints OFF of the governor to keep the speed and slow as possible. That workss...but only for a minute, two tops. It doesn't race right away upon start up.
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Old 01-03-2009, 01:55:59 AM
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Default Re: My "M" is Racing (1 1/2 McCormick Deering Engine)

Can you get us a pic of the front of you engine?? I would like to see it.
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Old 01-03-2009, 01:58:54 AM
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Default Re: My "M" is Racing (1 1/2 McCormick Deering Engine)

Hey Does it flood a bit when started??
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Old 01-03-2009, 01:59:36 AM
djamatoit djamatoit is offline
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Default Re: My "M" is Racing (1 1/2 McCormick Deering Engine)

absolutely....I will get a pic(s) tomorrow and post it.....
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Old 01-03-2009, 04:11:45 AM
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Default Re: My "M" is Racing (1 1/2 McCormick Deering Engine)

hi check your butterfly is in the right way also check your venturi sleeve is sealing properly if it doesnt seal it will suck fuel out of the bowl and around the venturi and your fuel level is right. also check the compensating valve that its not stuck or the spring to tight. cam
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Old 01-03-2009, 06:56:28 AM
David Gregg David Gregg is offline
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Default Re: My "M" is Racing (1 1/2 McCormick Deering Engine)

I have an M that did this. ON mine where the suction Jet was leaking where it is seated in the carb. I remove it and put a small gasket on it and reinstalled it. Toke care of my problem. I think with the somwhat worn valve guides, and throttle shaft that it was able to handle the extra fuel and run away.
You could hold the throttle plate closed on mine and it would still gain RPM's.
Might be something to check.
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Old 01-03-2009, 09:28:54 AM
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Default Re: My "M" is Racing (1 1/2 McCormick Deering Engine)

I just started my 3 for the first time yesterday and it is doing the same. I can hold the throttle shaft against the stop and it doesn't run away, just runs at close to working speed(way faster than I want it to run, and slowly gains rpms). I was thinking the throttle shaft was worn. I have the old 1 piece, 2 valve carb. How have you guys taken the slop out of the throttle shaft?

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Kevin
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Old 01-03-2009, 09:39:30 AM
Ray Freeman Ray Freeman is offline
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Default Re: My "M" is Racing (1 1/2 McCormick Deering Engine)

Had the same thing with mine recently. I had done a lot of work on it and we couldn't stop it from racing. We eventually worked out the governor didn't have enough movement in it to operate the throttle lever correctly. It eventually turned out when I had the flywheel off I had re fitted the weights between two different spokes to what they where originally. We found that two spoke gaps near the hub had slightly more clearance allowing more movement in the governor slide. I don't know whether this is typical of other M's but it fixed the problem on mine. What hurt was that me and another experienced engine man had spent a couple of hours trying to find the problem and a carpenter friend called in and picked it straight away
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Old 01-03-2009, 11:49:15 AM
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Default Re: My "M" is Racing (1 1/2 McCormick Deering Engine)

I'm facing the same thing on my M, but the gov/linkage is gunked up to where it's sticky. I'm hoping a good cleaning will sort it out. Then again, I'm reading these post closely, LOL. Keep em coming.
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Old 01-03-2009, 12:47:13 PM
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Default Re: My "M" is Racing (1 1/2 McCormick Deering Engine)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rag View Post
I'm facing the same thing on my M, but the gov/linkage is gunked up to where it's sticky. I'm hoping a good cleaning will sort it out. Then again, I'm reading these post closely, LOL. Keep em coming.
I KNOW it's not the gov. on mine, 'cause I can manually hold the butterfly closed against the stop and it continues to accelerate. So I must be getting air somewhere, I'm hoping it's just the butterfly shaft.
Kevin
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Old 01-03-2009, 01:06:06 PM
Jonathon Schmidt Jonathon Schmidt is offline
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Default Re: My "M" is Racing (1 1/2 McCormick Deering Engine)

Quote:
Originally Posted by farmsc View Post
I KNOW it's not the gov. on mine, 'cause I can manually hold the butterfly closed against the stop and it continues to accelerate. So I must be getting air somewhere, I'm hoping it's just the butterfly shaft.
Kevin
I had the same problem with mine. REplaced every thing in the carb. One day i noticed the new butterfly shaft was turning inside the pot metal. So i drilled and pinned it. John
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Old 01-04-2009, 05:54:52 AM
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Default Re: My "M" is Racing (1 1/2 McCormick Deering Engine)

i was thinking today about your problems and try starting your engines and once thay start to run away pull on the valve's to put more pressure on the valve. i have had some m's where the intake and exhaust valve springs arent tight enough and let the engine suck to much air and fuel. hope this cam
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Old 01-04-2009, 06:26:10 AM
Edd Payne Edd Payne is offline
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Default Re: My "M" is Racing (1 1/2 McCormick Deering Engine)

One of the mayne things that will make a M race is the exhaust valve spring.If it is at all weak it will suck open with the intake valve.This can be almosy unnoticable.With the engine going put more tension on the spring by levering under it with a screwdriver.If this is the problem you will notice the difference rite of.Also if you have the spark timing set to the markes it is to far advanced to run slow.I always set to fire almost on TDC.If your engine is a sparkplug set the gap at .30"this also helps .
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Old 01-04-2009, 01:41:17 PM
Dave16405 Dave16405 is offline
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Default Re: My "M" is Racing (1 1/2 McCormick Deering Engine)

A couple of things happened to my 3 hp when I replaced the throttle shaft and butterfly. First, the reproduction butterfly was too small for the bore and let too much air by. This wasn't a problem under load but with no load the engine would pick up speed as it warmed up. The other thing I found was that the reproduction throttle shaft would let the butterfly go past center thus speeding the engine up as it reached the stop. After redoing these parts myself my engine will now run fairly slow when I want it to.

Hope this helps,
Dave
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Old 01-04-2009, 01:54:24 PM
R. Goodacre R. Goodacre is offline
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Default Re: My "M" is Racing (1 1/2 McCormick Deering Engine)

My mate had this probem with his 3hp M (ignitor model), it runs at its governed speed, but will not slow down even with the butterfly right shut, his carb is a bit worn, but not badly, but we found its enough to let the butterfly go 'over-centre', and if wrongly adjusted, the governor will actually open the throttle as the revs rise, the more speed it gets on, the more the gov opens the butterfly!

Short of making new butterfly and spindle, drilling and re-sleeving the carb, theres not much we could do.
The engine just has to be let run fast, (it means it warms up fast and runs really well on kerosene),its not dangerously fast, just faster that he'd like for showing.

Best of luck.
Richard.
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Old 01-04-2009, 02:59:29 PM
JKKD JKKD is offline
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Default Re: My "M" is Racing (1 1/2 McCormick Deering Engine)

Air isn't your only problem, it's still getting fuel as well. Just because you put it against the external stop doesn't mean the butterfly is closed. On most of the M's I've worked on the butterfly never totally closes. The stops on the head of the butterfly shaft keep if from totally closing. They give you a consistent minimum opening. These engines were never meant to sit around idling all day so we have to make some adjustments to make them do it. I'd take the mixer off and look at the butterfly to see how far it is from closing and then file on the stop on the shaft head so it closes 50 percent farther. If you go all the way closed you may have a harder time making it sit there and thump every cycle like you want it to because when the butterfly is closed you can't draw in any fuel. Put the mixer back on and try it again. You might have to do this several times to get it where you want it. A worn butterfly shaft makes fuel adjustment much harder because all of the air is not passing the fuel port so it has a harder time drawing fuel

Jamie
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Old 01-05-2009, 12:05:35 AM
SethM SethM is offline
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Default Re: My "M" is Racing (1 1/2 McCormick Deering Engine)

Mine had this problem as well, in fact I think there's an old thread somewhere on it... Anyhow, mine worked fine after I replaced the valves, valve keepers and valve springs, don't know excactly what it did, but now it runs at rated speed instead of away.
Seth
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