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Opinions/advice needed on large prime mover


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  #1  
Old 09-10-2006, 10:09:04 PM
d3ejmz d3ejmz is offline
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Lightbulb Opinions/advice needed on large prime mover

Hi folks,
I'm new to this list, just joined, been reading a bit for a while. I would like some opinions or advice on a large diesel (My thinking) engine. What I have is a large shop that I am wanting to run on alternative fuels. We go through 100,000 kWh per month. Yeah, I know that's like, over 120kW on 24/7. Well, it's more of a small factory really, but family owned and operated. The loads experienced vary from about 15kW all night, to around 200kW when all the welders, mills, brake press etc are going.
So what I want to know is this, what is the best 2 to 4 cylinder diesel in the 150-175hp range? Also I am wanting something slow. Preferably under 700 rpm. I'm planning to have another smaller engine power the shop at night. (anyone got a 4-cylinder Lister CS for sale?) But the puzzler for me is the big one.

Even if all I can get is the engineering drawings, heh, I've got a machine shop

TIA,

Jim
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Old 09-11-2006, 12:50:10 AM
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John Drabik John Drabik is offline
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Default Re: Opinions/advice needed on large prime mover

150-175 hp out of a two to four cylinder engine? I cant think of any modern common diesel with that kind of performance. Seems like all the four cyl Cats and Deere engines I`m familiar with max out at about 120HP. Thats turboed, blown and intercooled in combination. You would have to go for a six or eight cylinder engine to get the 150 HP plus.

Maybe some of the old multi cylinder generator engines that you find in railroad locomotives would accomplish your needs. I`ll leave that to someone more knowledgible.
With the prices of fuel consider how many kw hrs you can squeeze out of a gallon in terms of efficiency. Regardless of the answers yours is an interesting question.
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Old 09-11-2006, 12:54:21 AM
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John Drabik John Drabik is offline
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Default Re: Opinions/advice needed on large prime mover

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Drabik
150-175 hp out of a two to four cylinder engine? I cant think of any modern common diesel with that kind of performance. Seems like all the four cyl Cats and Deere engines I`m familiar with max out at about 120HP. Thats turboed, blown and intercooled in combination. You would have to go for a six or eight cylinder engine to get the 150 HP plus.

Maybe some of the old multi cylinder generator engines that you find in railroad locomotives would accomplish your needs. I`ll leave that to someone more knowledgible.
With the prices of fuel consider how many kw hrs you can squeeze out of a gallon in terms of efficiency. Regardless of the answers yours is an interesting question.

PS You mentioned "alternative fuel". Do you have something in mind besides Diesel?
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Old 09-11-2006, 02:21:59 AM
Franz Franz is offline
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Default Re: Opinions/advice needed on large prime mover

Before you make a costly mistake, check your utility's filed tariffs.

Most electric utilitys in NY have an availability tariff. What that translates to in everyday English is because they have built the necessary lines and equipment to service your account, they get to continue charging you a substitute for what would have been demand charge. The availability charge will continue to kill you even after you have installed your own generation because the utility gets to keep charging you for their being ready willing and able to provide you power at your maximum established demand.
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Old 09-11-2006, 08:06:03 AM
d3ejmz d3ejmz is offline
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Thumbs up Re: Opinions/advice needed on large prime mover

Sorry for the confusion,
I'm not looking for a modern engine to do this. I am looking for a HUGE OLD engine. If the huge old engines are too expensive, I'll try to get some engineering drawings and make one.

Some engines I have seen on Smokstak which could probably do the job:

600 hp SNOW engine (derated of course) Love that motor!

200 hp engine (lost track of the link) found by a fishing creek manufactured in NY

150 hp same name little brother to the aforementioned 200hp engine (can't remember name but you have probably all drooled over the photo even more than I have.)

Basically any 150-200 horsey old twin or 4 could fit the bill, and I am not dead set on diesel. Alternative fuels in this case means wood gas and gasified plant resins mixed probably with a bit of propane (in the case of a gas engine) Kerosene or petrol or diesel (in the case of a liquid fuel engine).

The operation I'm talking about is not in NY State. it's in canada, and we would be cutting ourselves off the grid to do this. Yes it's a big long term project, but I and my family are committed to this direction.

Regards,
Jim
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Old 09-11-2006, 10:05:15 AM
John Merry John Merry is offline
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Default Re: Opinions/advice needed on large prime mover

A Fairbanks Morse Y vertical oil engine would be a good choice. There still out there at reasonable money and were made up to 300 hp. They run on many grades of fuel and are ideal for generating electricity being very fuel efficient.
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Old 09-11-2006, 10:22:51 AM
Kevin O. Pulver Kevin O. Pulver is offline
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Default Re: Opinions/advice needed on large prime mover

Jim,
We're all just the sort of crazies who think this is a wonderful idea, (feasable or not is another question, but still a GREAT idea!) and I think I speak for all of us when I say, "Please keep us posted. We'd love to know how things proceed with your plan, and we'll help any way we can."
Kevin
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Old 09-11-2006, 11:30:06 AM
d3ejmz d3ejmz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Merry
A Fairbanks Morse Y vertical oil engine would be a good choice. There still out there at reasonable money and were made up to 300 hp. They run on many grades of fuel and are ideal for generating electricity being very fuel efficient.
Thanks, John! And also thanks for the encouragement I have received thus far. I have friends in the Hutterite colonies around here, so I'm going to start asking around to see if anyone has an old Fairbanks Y engine. Just curious, John... why do you recommend the vertical? is it somehow fundamentally better than the horizontal? It sounds like just the ticket for me if i can get my hands on one. Are they simple like the lister clones?

Thanks,
Jim
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Old 09-11-2006, 03:40:24 PM
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John Newman, Jr. John Newman, Jr. is offline
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Default Re: Opinions/advice needed on large prime mover

There was a thread on this board recently about an electric plant in Texas that was for sale cheap (just over scrap value) Time is critical on this one though, as it is facing demolition. Here is a link to it:
http://www.smokstak.com/forum/showthread.php?t=31934
Then there is another plant on an island off the coast of Georgia, but there are complications with that one - a tax-exempt status organization can have it for free, but I don't know what kinds of hoops one would have to jump through to purchase it (state university property). Here is a link to that thread as well:
http://www.smokstak.com/forum/showthread.php?t=31296
Good luck!
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Old 09-11-2006, 03:41:54 PM
John Merry John Merry is offline
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Default Re: Opinions/advice needed on large prime mover

The FM horizontal Y was made from 10 to 25 hp. The verical style Y was made from 37.5 to 300 hp. They are a very simple and extremely robust in design . I prefer the vertical FM , they just look impressive.
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