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Electric Construction Company Wolverhamptom Dynamo


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  #21  
Old 12-16-2013, 06:11:10 AM
old time fitter old time fitter is offline
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Default Re: Electric Construction Company Wolverhamptom Dynamo

hi thanks for putting the correct web site. Charles.
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  #22  
Old 08-19-2014, 04:40:13 PM
Zinc10 Zinc10 is offline
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Default Re: Electric Construction Company Wolverhamptom Dynamo

Hello Tim
I am new to smokestak so excuse me if get the protocol wrong........
I have been following your conversations
I have made an extensive study of the ECC, Elwell Parker and Thomas Parker Limited after acquiring a Thomas Parker Machine myself.
I may be able to help date your machine.
From a brief look at the terminal plate on the small photo it is very similar to one I have recently seen.
On the cast base plate there should be cast ECC and a number underneath, probably a 3 or 4 in your case.......
If we could look at some more photos I may be able to offer more info.
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  #23  
Old 08-19-2014, 05:38:33 PM
tjcorbin tjcorbin is offline
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Default Re: Electric Construction Company Wolverhamptom Dynamo

Thank you for your reply.

It would be great to be able date the machine so any information will be appreciated.

Are you able to share your study - I haven't found a great deal of information myself.

I will have a look at the Dynamo and find the numbers you refer too and post some more photos.

Tim
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  #24  
Old 08-23-2014, 04:35:33 AM
tjcorbin tjcorbin is offline
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Default Re: Electric Construction Company Wolverhamptom Dynamo

Hello Again,

I stopped down to the shed earlier today and had a look and yes, there is a 2 cast into the base, as you describe.

My unit is similar to the one mentioned by 'old time fitter' above.

Pictures here:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/xajc6fd84qbyc3u/AADN5Zm_T_3TaaEWpDy6UEkIa?dl=0


Tim

Sorry,

Try:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/xajc6fd84...pDy6UEkIa?dl=0



Tim
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  #25  
Old 08-23-2014, 09:37:08 AM
Zinc10 Zinc10 is offline
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Default Re: Electric Construction Company Wolverhamptom Dynamo

Hello Tim

Nice machine!
Are the pictures as it is now or are these existing ones when you first got it?
Have restored it or do you plan to?

The slate plaques on each field leg each carry two terminals: two big ones on one side and a big and small on the other. was typical of a compound wound EEC Machine.
This would seem to be supported by the fact that there are two wires emerging from the front of each coil. (a shunt machine has only one wire emerging from the front of each coil the other ends are joined together on the back of the coils).
Your 'other ends' 4 wires should be joined as two pairs also.
Are the coil wires of differing gauges one thicker than the other?
Now to the brush holders
The small knob attached to the brass forked piece acted upon by the brush pressure spring: is it made of wood or is it a composite material?
I look forward to your reply.

P.S. what are the overall dimensions: L., W., H?

All the best

ZINC10
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  #26  
Old 08-23-2014, 04:05:10 PM
Zinc10 Zinc10 is offline
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Default Re: Electric Construction Company Wolverhamptom Dynamo

Hello again Tim
Further questions......
I have studied the photos some more
The rocker that carries the brush gear (the two brush arms) would appear to be cast in brass or is it cast Iron?
I know the rating plate shows ECC
Does the lettering on the base where you found the number say ELECTRIC CONSTRUCTION COMPANY WOLVERHAMPTON or ELECTRIC CONSTRUCTION CORPORATION WOLVERHAMPTON.
I Look forward to your answers.
Then I will hopefully give you a near date.
Cheers!
Zinc 10
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  #27  
Old 08-23-2014, 08:27:49 PM
tjcorbin tjcorbin is offline
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Default Re: Electric Construction Company Wolverhamptom Dynamo

Hi Zinc 10,

1. Photos are how it is now. I would like to restore it in the future - there will be some challenges here around the electrics as I am unsure the winding insulation is any good. Help and advice is appreciated. In the meantime I lube and turn every few months. The green tinge in the photos is the original paint. Some of it has gone light green oxidized, and some is still the original dark green, not much left though. The machine has quite a bit of oily dirt on it, which has protected it nicely!

2. the brush 'knob' is wooden. It is a fine piece with non-slip grooves in the large thumb turn at the end. Somewhat deteriorated however.

3. Dimensions: approx
17 3/8 from ground to shaft centre
16 3/4 wide base
27 1/2 long base
22 1/4 high to top of covers / brass vent
1 1/8 shaft at pulley end
(1210 rpm, 100V, 40 amps)

4. It does have heavy and light gauge wires on/about the windings.

I will need to look for the other information, Sunday today so I will stop down a bit later to confirm the wording and brass/iron questions.

Thanks

Tim
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  #28  
Old 08-23-2014, 09:49:15 PM
tjcorbin tjcorbin is offline
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Default Re: Electric Construction Company Wolverhamptom Dynamo

Hi Zinc10,

Had another look and can confirm the base casting reads:

Electric
Construction Company Ltd.
Wolverhamptom.

The rocker assembly is cast iron, has some of the remains of the original paint.

Tim
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  #29  
Old 08-24-2014, 09:48:14 PM
Radiomike Radiomike is offline
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Default Re: Electric Construction Company Wolverhamptom Dynamo

Finding out when the unit was made is interesting and very important. It would also be nice to see the dynamo running again.

Many DC machines are compound types; having the stationary field produced both by a shunt winding and a series winding. The shunt winding, being connected across the output, will produce flux in proportion to the voltage. The shunt winding will be of a high resistance some tens or low hundred ohms. The series winding carries the full output current and will be a very low resistance and be wound of wire with a larger cross sectional area. The shunt winding may be connected directly (or perhaps through a rheostat) to the brushes, a short shunt connection. Alternatively it may be connected across the output including any series winding - a long shunt connection.

The relative strengths and connections of the two fields can give different characteristics, a voltage that rises, falls or stays reasonably steady with increasing output current. Any basic electrical engineering book on DC machines will explain all this in greater detail

It is usually easy to see these wires and trace out their connections. Always make notes and mark any wires before disconnecting.

Once you have found all the windings and checked their continuity and noted the actual resistances you can check for insulation resistance to ground. Use a multimeter first, on the high ohms range, from each field winding to ground. If the measurement is very high then a "Megger" type insulation tester can be used lowest range only - 100 Volts.

The armature can be tested the same but with the brushes lifted.

The brushes may be set slightly forward of the neutral position -in the direction of rotation- for a generator to give better commutation; minimal sparking.

Mike
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  #30  
Old 08-25-2014, 10:49:30 AM
Zinc10 Zinc10 is offline
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Default Re: Electric Construction Company Wolverhamptom Dynamo

Hello Tim

Thanks for the information.

Machines like this follow a design made by a company called Elwell Parker.
As you have probably already found out The Electric Construction Company Limited was formed in 1893. Superseding The Electric Construction Corporation (1889 to 1893); whose predecessors were Elwell Parker. (1882: making dynamos 1884 to 1889)

The design remained basically the same from the start until as late as 1902 with the odd design improvements across the years.
In 1902 the terminals, although in the same place had a different orientation to the older machines. Sight glasses for the bearing oil were incorporated into the bearing towers and the makers name (cast into the bed plate) was changed form full wording to simply E.C.C.

So this machine lies somewhere between 1893 and 1902

Now. I have seen a machine from 1898 where the adjustment knob on the brush springs is of a composite material yours being made of wood, would seem to suggest that it is now between 1893 and 1898

From experience I doubt it is as early as 1893 but only photographs of both the 'end windings' on the armature would prove or disprove this. (If you want to take the two photos close up with brass eyebrow guards removed I will confirm).

I also have a theory which may close the gap.

Looking forward to your thoughts.........

Zinc 10
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  #31  
Old 08-25-2014, 03:40:44 PM
tjcorbin tjcorbin is offline
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Default Re: Electric Construction Company Wolverhamptom Dynamo

Thanks Mike and Zinc,

It has been 22 years since I studied DC machines at tech, I will have to do some reading when restoration begins. Unfortunately the coil 'tails' are free and in reasonably poor repair leaving few clues as to the original connection arrangement - so it will be down to machine theory and comparison with other similar machines to get the wiring correct.

I will get some photos with the eyebrow covers removed, have had these off before and luckily all the fixings on this machine are free.

Thanks again

Tim
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  #32  
Old 08-26-2014, 03:58:16 AM
Zinc10 Zinc10 is offline
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Default Re: Electric Construction Company Wolverhamptom Dynamo

Hello Both

I can provide a connection diagram when the time comes. That is not a worry.

The biggest problem with you being so far away is identifying the components of the field winding. We need to establish which of the loose wire tails belong to the shunt and series windings. Once sorted then we can begin the tests as detailed by mike
to establish the integrity of the windings and their respective resistances.
Ignoring the very large wires that would go from terminal blocks to brushes we need to measure the diameter of the other tails to find out the wire gauge of each and hopefully with the aid of some more photos; sort the pairs out ready for testing.
I suggest you gently turn these tails up towards the terminal blocks on their respective sides; temporarily, fix them there with tape or the like, photograph them and call them say left and right then tell us which one carries which wire gauge. Then we can label them for the future.
Close up photos of the terminal blocks will tell me which holes should carry each wire then I will send you a diagram.
Of course at this stage I am discounting the condition of the windings purely identifying the tail ends.
Mike sounds very knowledgeable and I design D.C. Motors for a living. between us I am sure we can sort you out.

All the Best

Zinc 10
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  #33  
Old 08-28-2014, 10:11:43 PM
tjcorbin tjcorbin is offline
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Default Re: Electric Construction Company Wolverhamptom Dynamo

OK,

I have taken additional photos with a better camera. Includes a couple of views of the armature.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/cqv7v6h41...VFcQoJ6Wa?dl=0

Some other comments: looking at the field windings, I can only see 2 tails from each coil, of the smaller diameter wire. Although there is some heavier gauge wire it does not appear to have any ends exposed or even broken off, so I suspect they may be for binding it together.

Anyway, perhaps a date for now.

There is also a picture of another generator I have, which I would like to identify and date - this one is paired to a National Gas Engine with matched RPM of 310. It has an agents plate on it, for whom I may be able to track down some info, although the agent no longer exists per se.


Tim
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  #34  
Old 09-02-2014, 04:34:21 PM
Zinc10 Zinc10 is offline
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Default Re: Electric Construction Company Wolverhamptom Dynamo

Hello Tim
I have studied the photographs you sent me.
The leather cuff surrounding the windings on the drive end of the armature is in keeping with earlier models. It is said that these gave stability to the 'rats nest' of crossing wires common on these earlier drum armatures.
When you restore; you need to replicate this on the commutator end. It was there also.....I can send you a picture if/when the time comes
Historical accounts suggest that the new method of winding armatures was made available to the Electric Construction Company sometime following May 1894 when they paid Thomas Parker for permission to use them. We are also told that they were not commonly used until much later (probable due to stock of older models)
Looking at your photos and the build features previously discussed and the history I would take and educated guess that your machine is 1894 to 1896.

Are you gathering this info for the purpose of advertising it for sale?
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  #35  
Old 09-02-2014, 04:58:53 PM
tjcorbin tjcorbin is offline
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Default Re: Electric Construction Company Wolverhamptom Dynamo

Thank you Zinc10.

I haven't considered selling this machine at this stage. It is an interesting item to chat about and soon it will be relocated to a new workshop where it will be on display.

Certainly, it won't be restored in the immediate future as the focus is currently on the other dynamo I sent a picture of, which is paired to a National Gas Engine, probably from new.

I would be interested to know if there are any companies out there who specialise in restoring these old DC machines whilst keeping things per original (albeit some materials such as wire could be cosmetically original only)?


Tim
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