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Electric Construction Company Wolverhamptom Dynamo


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  #1  
Old 08-19-2013, 03:28:02 AM
tjcorbin tjcorbin is offline
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Default Electric Construction Company Wolverhamptom Dynamo

Hi,

If someone could provide some information (sales brochure, original pictures, other literature, approx. manufacture dates) on this dynamo I would appreciate it. It is an Electric Construction Company (Wolverhamptom) Dynamo, 100 Volts, 40 Amps, 1210 RPM.

There is plenty of general history on E.C.C. on the web, although little on particular product lines.

Picture at:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/axgac0imxz...2016.51.50.jpg


Cheers

Tim
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  #2  
Old 08-19-2013, 11:22:20 AM
armandh armandh is offline
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Default Re: Electric Construction Company Wolverhamptom Dynamo

http://thehenryford.org/about/conservation.aspx
the ford museum has a lot of early electrical stuff/paperwork
http://thehenryford.org/about/contact.aspx
Ford being a contemporary and friend of T.A.Edison
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  #3  
Old 08-21-2013, 07:59:45 PM
Radiomike Radiomike is offline
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Default Re: Electric Construction Company Wolverhamptom Dynamo

ECC of Wolverhampton were absorbed into Brush Electric, so the chances of finding out anything from Brush will be small. Wolverhampton is part of greater Birmingham in the UK. Searches in the UK for museums specialising in industrial equipment may be fruitful.

Close inspection of the whole machine would tell you a lot. Have you traced out the windings? It looks like the two poles are wound with heavy gauge wire so the armature current may go through some of the field windings. There will also be a shunt connection to the fields which will be connected to the lines, possibly at one time through a resistor or simple voltage regulator.

I would check out the ohms of each winding and between each segment on the commutator. Also measure the resistance to ground of the fields and armature, start at 100 volts and go up to 200 to measure the insulation resistance, which should be 1MΩ or greater.

Commutators often accumulate carbon dust inside and this can lower the insulation resistance. It also looks like the field windings could do with a good re-varnish, both to keep them in place and to keep out moisture. Do not re-varnish if you think the windings are damp.

Mike
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Old 08-21-2013, 09:29:48 PM
tjcorbin tjcorbin is offline
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Default Re: Electric Construction Company Wolverhamptom Dynamo

Thanks Mike,

Yes, I will do some tests on the unit as you suggest which should reveal the condition of the windings, commutator etc. Also of importance will be the condition of the iron core. If the windings fail insulation tests I may have it put in an oven for a few days to try and dry it out - failing that it could be time for a rewind, or perhaps simply tidy it up as a static display only. As an electrician I know a 'friendly' rewinder who may help me out.

Mostly I was hoping I could find some basic information on this dynamo including approximate date of manufacture, I am thinking early 1900's ?

Cheers

Tim
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  #5  
Old 08-22-2013, 10:08:42 AM
Radiomike Radiomike is offline
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Default Re: Electric Construction Company Wolverhamptom Dynamo

The iron core should be in good condition, I would not expect it to be laminated. The area to look at is the junction of each pole to the bedplate. This is where rust may have encroached into the joint. A high resistance here will affect the field strength. Rewinding would be an option but the 1900's materials will be very different, cotton and maybe asbestos. A modern rewind will destroy all the historic significance.

Mike
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Old 08-23-2013, 05:57:11 PM
tjcorbin tjcorbin is offline
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Default Re: Electric Construction Company Wolverhamptom Dynamo

Will spend some time with the unit this weekend, remove some covers, have a closer look, a few electrical tests etc.

Thanks Mike.
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  #7  
Old 08-28-2013, 04:20:21 AM
tjcorbin tjcorbin is offline
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Default Re: Electric Construction Company Wolverhamptom Dynamo

...

Unfortunately both the field windings and armature windings are bad.

Otherwise it is generally in good shape with no significant rust, all bolts etc easy to remove. Armature free to turn, bearings good, oil ways clear.

Tim
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Old 08-29-2013, 01:15:06 AM
Radiomike Radiomike is offline
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Default Re: Electric Construction Company Wolverhamptom Dynamo

It is unfortunate that the windings are bad. But bad can mean many things. Is there no continuity or are the windings internally shorted or of low resistance to earth (ground).

Each fault can have very specific solutions. If the resistance to ground is low but not zero a good clean and re-varnish may restore it to acceptable values. The armature may have lots of carbon lodged in the commutator "V" rings again a good clean. A small steam cleaner can work wonders if the moisture is dried out slowly.

So what where the results of all your testing?

Mike
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Old 08-29-2013, 03:23:00 AM
tjcorbin tjcorbin is offline
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Default Re: Electric Construction Company Wolverhamptom Dynamo

Hi Mike,

Using 'Megger' branded installation tester (multifunction installation tester, near new.)

On ohms measuring mode, not insulation mode: (so just a few volts)
Armature, 0 ohms between ANY and ALL two segments on commutator.
Armature, open circuit shaft to commutator. (Which is good)
Commutator is slightly dusty, and does need cleaning.

Field winding 2x35ohm circuits from 4 tails, so possible continuity here, may be good. However dead short 0 ohms to chassis, all tails.

It is wound using a stranded wire, with a braided outer insulation. Quite thick, field winding is probably 1 to 2.5mm2 wire. Armature approx 2 to 4mm2 wire. I can confirm this only if I cut it back which I haven't yet done. We can actually get a similar 'looking' wire locally. It is not wound with a varnished type wire as we do today.

Ultimately I think the insulation may be very wet within the windings.

Possibly start with cleaning the armature, then several days in a hot box. Retest.

From what I read on the net, this dynamo was designed by Thomas Parker, who left ECC around 1894 and started his own company. Certainly looks VERY similar to other Thomas Parker dynamos. I put the manufacture date anywhere from 1890 to early 1900s.

Cheers

Tim
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Old 08-29-2013, 08:29:11 AM
armandh armandh is offline
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Default Re: Electric Construction Company Wolverhamptom Dynamo

a good drying out may improve the field leakage to ground

the armature segments may appear to be 0 if the windings are fairly heavy
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Old 08-29-2013, 03:00:18 PM
tjcorbin tjcorbin is offline
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Default Re: Electric Construction Company Wolverhamptom Dynamo

Hi Amandh,

I appreciate that armature windings could have low readings, however only between segment pairs (winding ends) which are opposite commutator segments usually. It should not have low resistance between any and all segments (eg adjacent) when tested as this shows the individual windings are shorted together.

This could be caused by a dirty commutator or shorted windings. In this case, although the comm is a little dusty, I suspect the windings are wet. Drying out may help so I will try.

Thanks

Tim
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Old 08-29-2013, 08:03:54 PM
armandh armandh is offline
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Default Re: Electric Construction Company Wolverhamptom Dynamo

could be shorted but I seem to remember a winding arrangement that is more like a round-a-bout,
coils in series between adjacent commutator segments, all the way around.
http://services.eng.uts.edu.au/cempe...chines_05s.pdf
fig 3
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Old 08-29-2013, 09:13:51 PM
tjcorbin tjcorbin is offline
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Default Re: Electric Construction Company Wolverhamptom Dynamo

Thanks Amandh,

this could be the case - I haven't seen this before. the armature does have 2x wires connected to each commutator segment. I assumed there were parallel windings per segment, however a series arrangment is quite possible. Certainly this would be a possible explaination of a short between all segments.

Unfortuanately in my career, I have replaced more DC machines with AC than repaired them!


tim
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Old 08-29-2013, 10:39:20 PM
Radiomike Radiomike is offline
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Default Re: Electric Construction Company Wolverhamptom Dynamo

The field coils could respond to gentle heat and warmth, the materials used will be of as low insulation class and should not be stressed with too much heat. If it is class A insulation the limiting temperature is 105°C, class A will typically be cotton type materials with a shellac type varnish.

The armature can be wave or lap wound and adjacent segments will have a very low resistance between. Each segment must have two wires connected, in both lap and wave formats. I am familiar with the Megger brand and its resolution at the low resistance range may not be good enough to resolve the actual value.

The classic method would be to clean the commutator and with the armature resting on a stand apply a low DC voltage at diametrically opposed points. Then with a DC voltmeter check between each segment. An open circuit will give a full voltage reading. If this test is satisfactory repeat with a millivolt meter to ensure each segment has equal volts.

What test voltage did you use for the insulation test, Meggers generally have multiple voltage choices, always start with the lowest. Is the insulation zero ohms or some thousands or hundreds ohms?

Mike
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Old 08-30-2013, 12:05:51 AM
tjcorbin tjcorbin is offline
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Default Re: Electric Construction Company Wolverhamptom Dynamo

Hi Mike,

Thanks for the advice.

I agree the meter I used does not show useful fractional ohms. As I did not expect to see low ohms between adjacent segments I assumed things were bad - however it appears this is to be expected! I will try your suggested method for testing the armature.

The field windings are zero ohms to chassis. Measured using the ohm meter setting, not an insulation test setting. So test voltage would be only a few volts.

I have not yet applied insulation test voltages to anything, as it has shown zero ohms using the ohm meter.



Tim
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Old 08-30-2013, 04:46:54 AM
armandh armandh is offline
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Default Re: Electric Construction Company Wolverhamptom Dynamo

carefully check the wiring and test with ends disconnected from anything

if the frame was used as earth [neutral] and it is still connected
the reading will stay low
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Old 10-15-2013, 06:56:50 AM
old time fitter old time fitter is offline
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Default Re: Electric Construction Company Wolverhamptom Dynamo

Quote:
Originally Posted by tjcorbin View Post
Hi,

If someone could provide some information (sales brochure, original pictures, other literature, approx. manufacture dates) on this dynamo I would appreciate it. It is an Electric Construction Company (Wolverhamptom) Dynamo, 100 Volts, 40 Amps, 1210 RPM.

There is plenty of general history on E.C.C. on the web, although little on particular product lines.

Picture at:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/axgac0imxz...2016.51.50.jpg


Cheers

Tim
Hi my name is Charles. I worked at the ECC in Wolverhampton as a fitter/ service engineer from 1964 at 15 until it closed in 1986/7. I will be going to a works reunion on October 29 2013 where I will see if my old service manager can help you.
regards Charles
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Old 10-16-2013, 03:05:03 AM
tjcorbin tjcorbin is offline
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Default Re: Electric Construction Company Wolverhamptom Dynamo

Thank you Charles, any information would be much appreciated.

I have had little success finding any information about this Dynamo. From what I can see, it was probably designed by a Mr Thomas Parker circa 1890s. Parker left ECC in 1894 and set up his own company - there are several examples of very similar Dynamos produced by the Thomas Parker company. However I cannot find any other examples of an ECC dynamo. Although the design probably originates from Parker when he was at ECC, I don't really know how old this unit is.

This Dynamo is very nice, with plenty of brass!

Cheers

Tim Corbin
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Old 12-15-2013, 06:43:31 AM
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Default Re: Electric Construction Company Wolverhamptom Dynamo

Hi if you go to www.blackcounrryhistor.org you will find more information on the ECC Wolverhampton if you type in a P/3708 you will see a photo of a old dc generator like yours.you can also try Wolverhampton archives on line . Regards charles
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Old 12-15-2013, 08:52:12 AM
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Default Re: Electric Construction Company Wolverhamptom Dynamo

Correct link
http://blackcountryhistory.org/
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