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Steam Stationary Engines, Traction Engines

new code stamps?

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Old 08-02-2006, 09:41:49 PM
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HalfKeck HalfKeck is offline
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Default new code stamps?

In another thread it was suggested that maybe a new stamp would be in order that only specified historic boiler repairs, instead of the generic R, it could be HR or the like. Of course this could mean higher costs due to the fact that many boiler repairmen nowadays have no clue how to repair a historic boiler and often just cut and weld, with repairs that are often slipshod and ugly to boot.

The HR would assist historic boiler owners in finding repairmen that understand how to properly repair such boilers and would take some of the guess work out of getting your boiler fixed

Another thought I have had about a stamp would be one aimed at the model arena. It would basically involve some of the requirements of the S stamp for one looking to build their own model boiler, but not all of the huge expense. The fact is even if the boiler is code or not, a good percentage of the materials are code approved. And compared to the rest of the code a small locomotive style boiler is not exactly rocket science. Why shouldn't a person who only intends to build one or two boilers in his life be able to submit an application, demonstrate he is a compentent welder, use approved materials and designs to build a hobby boiler that could carry some sort of stamp, without spending thousands on getting the S stamp? I know some craftsmen that have built such boilers that are far and away better built than some of the commercial S stamp boilers on the market. And these kind of do it your selfers are really going to pay others for a boiler of lesser quality, can't say I blame them.

I realize that much of the code deals with them making alot of money, so this may not exactly be practical, but does anyone else want to comment about what they think or would like to see?

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Old 08-02-2006, 10:40:37 PM
Glenn Gieszler Glenn Gieszler is offline
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Default Re: new code stamps?

If the link works page 6 shows the symbols of various stamps, if you have the time to read the qualifications in some cases you are required to carry two different stamps to perform one function, lots of paper work, procedures, preformance and two government agencys and buisness interests. the National Board and A.S.M.E are involved, there is just not an easy answer to your questions
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Old 08-03-2006, 05:14:07 PM
Kelly Anderson Kelly Anderson is offline
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Default Re: new code stamps?

An HR stamp would mainly serve to escalate costs and limit options for operators of old boilers. Fully 99% of boiler shops wouldn’t bother with getting one, and the other one percent would have no reason not to price gouge if the nearest competitor was several hundred miles away. Plus, just as there is no guarantee that an S stamp or and R stamp holder isn’t a hack, there would be no guarantee that an HR stamp holder is competent.

As far as a stamp for hobbyists, you need to understand that it’s the paperwork and the third party inspection that makes a code boiler, not the boiler itself. The workmanship is supposed to count as well, but it’s a distant third on the priority list.

For example, a certified welder could be employed by a code shop to build boilers, and say his employer is hired to build a vertical firetube boiler for someone’s steam launch. Our welder would like on of these boilers for his own use, so decides to use the same blueprints, order the same materials, and assemble his boiler in his home weld shop on his days off. He works on the one at work during the day, and does the same steps in building the one at home in the evening. He finishes both at the same time, the third party inspector comes in and puts a stamp on the one at work, and off it goes to the customer.

Our welder’s home made boiler is of the exact same quality as the code shop boiler, and made of the exact same materials, but it is not a code boiler, and never can be. Why not? Because our welder’s home shop is not recognized as a code shop, a procedure that requires creating a quality control manual, controls regarding material identification and storage, and welder certification (no, our welder is not a certified welder in his own shop, only when working for his employer), and he didn’t have a third party inspector come in (usually three or more times at $500 a whack) to see that he is following the blueprints for the boiler, and the procedures in his quality control manual (that he doesn’t have).

That’s the mentality of the powers that be, and they aren’t about to change to please a few hundred hobbyists. I asked a senior official with National Board about creating some sort of exemption for home built hobbyist boilers below a certain size and for personal use. He said that they were aware of these boilers, and had been working on that issue on a very back burner basis, but the explosion in Medina spelled the end of giving any consideration to hobbyists.

The other issue he mentioned was that while the National Board can produce new standards on the above subjects, the states are under no obligation to recognize them, so any new rules would be a patchwork at best.
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Old 08-03-2006, 05:24:30 PM
Jim Jake Templin
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Default Re: new code stamps?

Yeah, what Kelley said........

what you have to do is make sure that your repairman is qualified to work on historic boilers, because an R stamp, or S for that matter, is no guarantee.

I know boiler manufacturers that don't know what a staybolt is!
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Old 08-03-2006, 06:03:47 PM
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20 Reeves Highwheeler 20 Reeves Highwheeler is offline
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Default Re: new code stamps?

I don't want to go hunting for your quote a few months back, but I will attempt to quote you:

"...The ASME making the rules for the NBIC is like having the Teamster's Union writing the rules for the National Transportation Safety Board..."

Maybe I was just dreaming that?
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Old 08-03-2006, 10:30:29 PM
Jim Jake Templin
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Default Re: new code stamps?

yep, and I think that what happened just makes that more true. you just hafta make sure that your boilermaker knows his hind end from a hole in the ground, and all the stamps in the world won't insure that.
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