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Here's One for Paul, Hugh and Other Windmill Nuts


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  #21  
Old 05-23-2019, 06:32:41 AM
Darryl Darryl is offline
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Default Re: Here's One for Paul, Hugh and Other Windmill Nuts

60 degree angle iron.
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  #22  
Old 05-23-2019, 06:56:07 AM
Wayne Timms Wayne Timms is offline
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Default Re: Here's One for Paul, Hugh and Other Windmill Nuts

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Originally Posted by Darryl View Post
60 degree angle iron.

Hi Darryl,

How does 60 degree angle iron work in a tapered structure?

Regards,
Wayne
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  #23  
Old 05-23-2019, 06:16:47 PM
Scotty 2 Scotty 2 is offline
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Default Re: Here's One for Paul, Hugh and Other Windmill Nuts

Hello all
A Southern Cross has a triangular foot print ie 3 sides.
A triangle shaped base is 180 degrees. 180 divided by 3 equals 60 degrees. If they used 90 degree angle iron there would be a 15 degree wedge shaped gap on each side of the angle iron where the braces and cross members bolt onto which would create stress points. By having a 60 degree angle iron the cross members and braces sit flat on the angle iron posts.

Cheers Scott
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  #24  
Old 05-23-2019, 07:27:59 PM
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Eric Schulz Eric Schulz is offline
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Default Re: Here's One for Paul, Hugh and Other Windmill Nuts

Using 90 degree angle on a 3 legged tower is not all that hard. In fact, it is all I have ever seen. But then, I haven't seen everything!
The illustration shows how it is done. The overhanging girts are to support the platform.

Eric
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  #25  
Old 05-23-2019, 07:50:07 PM
Scotty 2 Scotty 2 is offline
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Default Re: Here's One for Paul, Hugh and Other Windmill Nuts

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Originally Posted by Eric Schulz View Post
Using 90 degree angle on a 3 legged tower is not all that hard. In fact, it is all I have ever seen.
Eric
A hell of a lot of extra work at the factory making a weaker structure all while leaving some great spots for cows to rip their guts open, making the item either more expensive to the consumer or giving less profit for the manufacturer.
They're pretty switched on in this State of Sunshine. When's Origin start?

Cheer Scott
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  #26  
Old 05-24-2019, 01:47:42 AM
Paul Richardson Paul Richardson is offline
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Default Re: Here's One for Paul, Hugh and Other Windmill Nuts

The idea of a wider or narrower angle on the tower leg material is not one that I have struck before?Certainly with the smaller more common 'Z' pattern windmills from Southern Cross,up to 14' diameter wheel I would expect the angle to be 90deg?
Eric's diagram is from a 'Z' pattern instructions source I presume?
I think the detail would apply to the larger sized units?
Looking at my Geelong photos again I'm starting to think the leg material angle is wider than 90deg,if that makes sense.This would require even more attention to crossbrace and stay ends where they would be expected to sit flat where they mount on the outside of the leg?
The 25' Southern Cross pictured according to company advice had a packed weight of just over 2.5 tons.(minus tower)
A 50' tower would weigh in the vicinity of 1.2 tons according to the same source.
Scotty,..after looking at quite a few different systems for creating these things,i tend to think that Southern Cross had a good well thought out product.They had the advantage of keeping at it for longer than most local manufacturers,plus good market penetration.Post war they filled a big demand nationally.
For someone who messes around with these things at home and sells the odd refurbished unit I would change one or two details,but basicly I think they are (IZ models) are a fairly clever and simple piece of engineering.
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  #27  
Old 05-24-2019, 01:55:41 AM
cobbadog cobbadog is offline
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Default Re: Here's One for Paul, Hugh and Other Windmill Nuts

In the book on southern Cross they mentioned that S.C. specially ordered the 60' angle for their windmill towers. This was specifically done to make their product price competitive to others on the market who were using 4 leg towers.
Like so many things today even back then, if you were prepared to order enough of a product they would make it for you. With a triangular base it would have been more sturdy as triangulation is a very strong design taken from nature and used frequently on high rise buildings and glass curved surfaces.
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  #28  
Old 05-24-2019, 09:01:20 AM
typak typak is offline
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Default Re: Here's One for Paul, Hugh and Other Windmill Nuts

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Originally Posted by Scotty 2 View Post
A hell of a lot of extra work at the factory making a weaker structure all while leaving some great spots for cows to rip their guts open,
In my experience the stock around here have no issues and use them for scratching posts, then again I'm no goat roper so what would I know?
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  #29  
Old 05-24-2019, 09:21:52 AM
Ray Freeman Ray Freeman is offline
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Default Re: Here's One for Paul, Hugh and Other Windmill Nuts

I have seen older towers with 60 degree angle. The towers that came with the IZ's I have only seen 90 deg. The horizontal angle braces have a slight kink pressed on the ends so they fit snug on the 90 deg. The 60 deg angle I have seen is pressed,not rolled as in the 90 deg.
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  #30  
Old 05-24-2019, 08:00:11 PM
Paul Richardson Paul Richardson is offline
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Default Re: Here's One for Paul, Hugh and Other Windmill Nuts

I have been trying to picture the tighter angle iron Ray,were those examples you have seen in big mills,or smaller around the IZ range?
I see the tower in Scotty's pictures of the old G pattern must be 90deg?The crossbraces can clearly be seen to have the ends kinked over for fit.
Cobba,..you must be referring to a very early engineering detail and sales pitch with the 60deg angle iron?
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  #31  
Old 05-24-2019, 10:12:01 PM
Scotty 2 Scotty 2 is offline
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Default Re: Here's One for Paul, Hugh and Other Windmill Nuts

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I have been trying to picture the tighter angle iron Ray
I'm off to the farm later and I'll be back where the old G pattern is tomorrow. I need to remember the camera.
Cheers Scott
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  #32  
Old 05-24-2019, 10:22:46 PM
Darryl Darryl is offline
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Default Re: Here's One for Paul, Hugh and Other Windmill Nuts

Not sure which mills had 60 degree angle iron but they do exist. We had some in the farm scrap pile for twenty odd years and no one ever used it.Quite useless for anything other than a triangle windmill tower.
Also, wouldn't be a big windmill because it was quite light gauge and about 1 1/2" wide.
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  #33  
Old 05-25-2019, 02:47:53 AM
cobbadog cobbadog is offline
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Default Re: Here's One for Paul, Hugh and Other Windmill Nuts

Hi Paul,
It is information that I read in the book on Southern Cross Foundry by Rob Laurent. I don't know why that stayed in my head but it did, maybe because it is an unusual angle. IF I get a moment I will get back into the book again to see if it mentions any models that it used it on.
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  #34  
Old 05-25-2019, 03:33:58 AM
Scotty 2 Scotty 2 is offline
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Default Re: Here's One for Paul, Hugh and Other Windmill Nuts

Hello all
Been to the farm. Walked down to the hay shed. The windmill in there is 90 degree angle
Walked to the wind mill down the paddock and got harassed by hungry neddies. They must of smelt the lucerne on me from the hay shed. 90 degree angle on that one too. Bugger.
Drove down to the back to the scrap pile. Bingo. 2" angle and by the gal nuts and bolts.....well you work out how old it is.
I reckon it was rolled and not pressed. What do you reckon?
Went for a drive down to the park. Bugger again. it's a Simplex geared head wind mill there. A 4 post tower.

Cheers Scott
PS: I remember buying some of the lighter stuff at a clearing sale over 20 years ago. I didn't see it clearly (didn't realise it was in the sale) but I just brought it because I wanted it for shelves. I didn't realise it was 60 degree stuff. Double poo. Too much trouble or shelves so simply sold it again.







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  #35  
Old 05-25-2019, 05:13:07 AM
Wayne Timms Wayne Timms is offline
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Default Re: Here's One for Paul, Hugh and Other Windmill Nuts

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Originally Posted by Scotty 2 View Post
.
PS: I remember buying some of the lighter stuff at a clearing sale over 20 years ago. I didn't see it clearly (didn't realise it was in the sale) but I just brought it because I wanted it for shelves. I didn't realise it was 60 degree stuff. Double poo. Too much trouble or shelves so simply sold it again.
Hi Scotty,

This 60 degrees is the part I find hard to believe. Why would a company specially build angle iron and purposely make it the wrong angle for their windmills? It doesn't make sense? The angle needs to be greater than 60 degrees.
Cheers,
Wayne
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  #36  
Old 05-25-2019, 06:17:42 AM
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Eric Schulz Eric Schulz is offline
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Default Re: Here's One for Paul, Hugh and Other Windmill Nuts

This is how it would look.

Eric
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  #37  
Old 05-25-2019, 07:15:35 AM
Paul Richardson Paul Richardson is offline
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Default Re: Here's One for Paul, Hugh and Other Windmill Nuts

I managed to find and crop a photo of what I believe is a very early three leg SC tower,from a privately owned display in Shepparton.
At the time I didn't take a lot of notice of the degree of angle of material in the legs.The main difference at first glance for a SC tower was the crossbrace and stay arrangement.Returning to that picture now I notice that the crossbraces are fitted to the inside of the leg.This is something that would not work well either in the case of 90deg angle legs.
It's a poor quality photo but hopefully it shows enough detail?
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  #38  
Old 05-25-2019, 07:40:12 AM
Ray Freeman Ray Freeman is offline
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Default Re: Here's One for Paul, Hugh and Other Windmill Nuts

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Originally Posted by Paul Richardson View Post
I have been trying to picture the tighter angle iron Ray,were those examples you have seen in big mills,or smaller around the IZ range?
I see the tower in Scotty's pictures of the old G pattern must be 90deg?The crossbraces can clearly be seen to have the ends kinked over for fit.
Cobba,..you must be referring to a very early engineering detail and sales pitch with the 60deg angle iron?
All the 60 deg ones I remember were short towers Paul with 6 and 8 foot heads. I think I remember some info on them in the Southern Cross hand book that came with the mills. It was regarding how to fit a modern stub tower onto the older style towers.
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  #39  
Old 05-25-2019, 08:14:06 AM
typak typak is offline
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Default Re: Here's One for Paul, Hugh and Other Windmill Nuts

All the pumps around here are Bryan and Comet, all the three stand mills seem to have been blown away years ago, just cheap design I suppose, southern cross were always a little on the dodgy side.
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  #40  
Old 05-25-2019, 10:47:57 PM
Paul Richardson Paul Richardson is offline
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Default Re: Here's One for Paul, Hugh and Other Windmill Nuts

A big Comet is a nice sight.I can't say I have seen one on a three leg tower?Perhaps they were only produced as four leg units?
Southern Cross had offered three and four leg towers for their Z pattern mills,from the early 1930's and still available today.
Bryan on the other hand made their own three leggers,plenty of them.I have seen a few of the current model 'steel 81' steel engine casing models,8' versions on 25' three leg towers.They remained keen to make use of an existing foreign three leg tower if it meant the opportunity for additional sales.
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