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Welding Shop

p&h arc welder straight 6


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  #1  
Old 03-27-2015, 11:23:02 PM
twistedhippy twistedhippy is offline
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Default p&h arc welder straight 6

i put this under the wrong thread i think hope it is ok to put it here to

Hello I just bought this out of a scrap pile. I was told that it burned sticks 5 years ago. Before i got it home tried to look it up with no luck. I think it is a Chrysler Ind straight 6 230ci tag numbers IND 6-211 10345e trying to find out some info on it i saw that other welders also had 110 plugins but none on this one. I would like to know how old it is and if there is a way to get AC power off it. Any help would be great thanks

more pics in thread http://www.smokstak.com/forum/showthread.php?t=144548

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Old 08-24-2015, 12:12:18 AM
m jorstad m jorstad is offline
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Default Re: p&h arc welder straight 6

i have a 200 amp like this with a allis chalmers 125 engine on it
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  #3  
Old 09-10-2015, 10:56:04 PM
dkamp dkamp is offline
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Default Re: p&h arc welder straight 6

I have taken this on as a challenge! Stay tuned
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Old 09-16-2015, 11:17:57 PM
dkamp dkamp is offline
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Default Re: p&h arc welder straight 6

So... Mason needed a generator to provide backup power for his farm. I happened to have a good unit to suit his needs, and we affected a trade.

To make it easier to transport home, I extricated the P&H from it's 'funky' trailer system and loaded it into my truck, and put the trailer 'scraps' on my company trailer (along with a bunch of company materials). When I got home, I unloaded the whole mess into piles, and some directly into the scrap-metal trailer, and the welder off to the side.

Tonight, I moved it to the 'working' area- concrete in the driveway, under lights. I spent some quality time unbolting and lifting off the shroud, then cleaning the initial crud out, pulling the carb off, and eliminating about a dozen mud-wasp nests. Had to vacuum some dirt out of the intake manifold, and I vacuumed crud out of the indents around the sparkplugs. Next step will be to soak it in engine degreaser, hit it with pressure washer, then get it sitting up on stands about 3' off the ground, so I can work at a more comfortable elevation. I'll post pictures as soon as I can get some good ones in the daylight... it's a big, simple, and beautiful machine...
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Old 09-17-2015, 05:01:05 PM
dkamp dkamp is offline
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Default Re: p&h arc welder straight 6

Okay, so here it is, in the dark, with the shroud removed...

It's dirty... but not too bad. Really oily, probably on partial account that the exhaust is little more than a two-foot piece of flexible connected to the exhaust manifold...

Tag is, for the moment, illegible... it's a 'Model 300", or something to the effect...
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Old 09-17-2015, 05:06:58 PM
dkamp dkamp is offline
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Default Re: p&h arc welder straight 6

Now some degreaser...
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Old 09-21-2015, 10:49:58 AM
dkamp dkamp is offline
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Default Re: p&h arc welder straight 6

Whew... third trip around the machine with degreaser and a pressure-washer, and there's STILL gak coming off, and STILL some that continues to hold on.

"Industrial" means this is bound to happen...
At same time, I've got the carb apart... not too bad inside, but rinsing it out good. If the stars align, it may get back together today or tomorrow for a test...

Under the gak, I found more identification. This unit has automatic idling control. I haven't dug in to trace out how it works, but there's a large solenoid on the throttle side, and a control box on the opposite. It is wired to the generator head somehow, and offhand, I see no mechanical governance yet, and no 'velocity governor' function to this carb, but I'm not done investigating yet. It may be that the throttle solenoid is load-sensitive, and does it's governance by balancing generator output (field or armature) with the solenoid's spring. Could be interesting... looking forward to lighting up the cylinders and hearing it burble...
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Old 09-21-2015, 08:26:23 PM
dkamp dkamp is offline
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Default Re: p&h arc welder straight 6

I wouldn't bet on being wrong... however, the output power is variable, and on this machine, so full throttle on the solenoid could cause the engine to overspeed when set to a very low welding range.

The output control is a 'swinging sector' on which the commutator brushes change their angle, i assume with respect to the stationary field... thus, limiting output, and therefore, causing less demand of flywheel horsepower.

There's a tag on a box on the starter side that indicates it as a 'time delay idle controller'. There's wiring coming from the generator to the throttle solenoid, and some from the solenoid to the time delay idle controller. Some of the wiring looks like repair, some of the other wiring looks like it NEEDS repair, so before I spin this thing up, I'm gonna make sure that anything likely to catch fire, is aptly disconnected, and I'll probably find and disconnect field excitation... so that nothing gets too...

...exciting...
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Old 09-21-2015, 09:58:31 PM
dkamp dkamp is offline
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Default Re: p&h arc welder straight 6

Greeeeezy!

Yeah, I think that idle solenoid has an internal issue I'll have to investigate.
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Old 09-21-2015, 10:00:38 PM
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Default Re: p&h arc welder straight 6

Chrysler industrial flathead six with coil point-condenser distributor, typical generator and starter setup. Water pump uses a thumb-nut greaser.
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Last edited by dkamp; 09-21-2015 at 10:13:25 PM.
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Old 09-21-2015, 10:05:17 PM
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Default Re: p&h arc welder straight 6

And some more pics of details:
The idle delay appears to be a dashpot-type delay relay.
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Old 09-21-2015, 10:09:59 PM
dkamp dkamp is offline
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Default Re: p&h arc welder straight 6

Interesting stuff to me... boring to most anyone else methinks... sad that the ID tag on the welder head is faded beyond legible...
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Old 09-21-2015, 10:24:33 PM
uglyblue66 uglyblue66 is offline
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Default Re: p&h arc welder straight 6

More than likely it will be putting out 110 DC at those outlets. You will need to find older grinders and drills and such that run on AC/DC if you want to do field work with this machine and not take a separate generator. Regular 120 light bulbs will run on it.
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Old 09-24-2015, 04:33:37 PM
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Default Re: p&h arc welder straight 6

Quote:
Originally Posted by uglyblue66 View Post
More than likely it will be putting out 110 DC at those outlets.
This is only a welder- it has no outlets, only two larger terminals for welding current.
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Old 09-24-2015, 05:25:21 PM
richardo38 richardo38 is offline
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Photo Re: p&h arc welder straight 6

THese pictures might show whats on your tags.
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Old 09-24-2015, 05:26:38 PM
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Default Re: p&h arc welder straight 6

Quote:
Originally Posted by akuna View Post
After looking at your pictures the thing you call a solenoid looks more like and old time voltage regulator or relay. I bet it works similar to control throttle.
It's just a big solenoid... windings (note... slightly blackened near the right hand terminal) and a swinging bar. The swinging bar is attached to the throttle through a pull-rod, with a spring return.... so it's an actuator. I'm not certain wether it's variable, or an all-or-nothing... if it modulates, it probably does it by virtue of some feedback (like an auxiliary field coil current?)

The 'idle control' is obviously a relay with time-delay dashpot on it... I haven't dug into that box deep enough to see how it's configured, but my guess is that it senses load and pulls in, and once the load is gone, the dashpot probably holds the throttle up for twenty seconds or so before idling down.

If it was 1950ish, and it's me... that's probably how I'd do it.
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Old 09-27-2015, 02:03:58 AM
dkamp dkamp is offline
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Default Re: p&h arc welder straight 6

Thanks Richardo!

Do you have any other information on this one Mine has an ID tag on the center bulkhead, left (engine's distributor), but facing away from engine (towards generator head)... it is also faded completely.

So for progress... I dismantled, soaked, and dug out crud from all the carbeurator orfices, and reassembled it today.

The carbeurator is a Ball & Ball... later purchased and renamed Carter. Same as used in the Dodge Power Wagon... as was rest of the inline six.

Engine on this one is ID T116-110945, identifying it as 1941-1947... 218 or 230ci.

I verified that there were no obstructions by hand-cranking, then applied power to the starter. There's obviously some wiring issues, but the starter functioned. Didn't sound like it has much compression, but it may have enough to pop over once I get it some fuel and ignition. if the valves aren't quite seating, a little running may be all it needs to seal up... or if not, I'll pull the head and side covers, and bring a spring compressor, lapstick, and some grit-paste in a five-gallon bucket...
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Old 11-22-2015, 10:50:39 AM
mschreiber mschreiber is offline
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Default Re: p&h arc welder straight 6

is the welding generator manufactured by p&h? hows this project going?
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Old 11-22-2015, 02:52:57 PM
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Default Re: p&h arc welder straight 6

dkamp, file this away in your mind for future needs.
For engine parts google up Vintage Power Wagons in Iowa as they have tons of surplus spares. I'm not sure if your engine is a 218, 230 or 265 cube.
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Old 11-24-2015, 12:12:54 AM
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Default Re: p&h arc welder straight 6

Yep, I'm familiar with the PW group over there... I"m about an hour from 'em.

ONE ID tag says 6-211... the number stamped on the block suggested that it may have been a different displacement, but that would imply that someone had removed the tag, and transplanted it from prior block to this one... and I don't see anything that would suggest this one ever having been apart... so your guess is as good as mine for the moment.

No progress really- I've been rather swamped between getting the farm ready for winter, and handling company road-assignments. I don't have my large heated shop built YET, so I'll probably pickle this one for winter, get it on a wooden skid, and find a hiding place for it in the pole barn 'till it's warm enough to attack again. I've got several other projects that I can get wrapped up and done, out of the way and safe, so I'll do that, and get stuff moved to winter storage so I have room for snow accumulation... and then pick it all up next spring. (sigh)...
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