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Possibly a Problem for Grey Nomads and Others


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  #41  
Old 09-02-2018, 08:00:26 PM
Scotty 2 Scotty 2 is online now
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Default Re: Possibly a Problem for Grey Nomads and Others

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Originally Posted by Burrows75 View Post
I think you all are a little off topic and possibly even a little personal
Possibly BUT allegations have been made that our horse float has, and I quote, several structural faults in it being less than roadworthy with the possibility of catastrophic failure.
There are people waiting to hear Typak's reply. And they aren't all on this forum.
Cheers Scott
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  #42  
Old 09-02-2018, 08:04:00 PM
Power Power is online now
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Default Re: Possibly a Problem for Grey Nomads and Others

Well, if you don't mind comments from a Yank who has been around metal most of his life.

From what I see of the A frame, it looks good. The cross members appear to be properly spaced and appear to have good welds into the side rails.
The only area that could have more detail is the connection where the side rails meet the A frame.
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  #43  
Old 09-02-2018, 08:17:46 PM
Scotty 2 Scotty 2 is online now
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Default Re: Possibly a Problem for Grey Nomads and Others

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Originally Posted by Power View Post
Well, if you don't mind comments from a Yank who has been around metal most of his life.

From what I see of the A frame, it looks good. The cross members appear to be properly spaced and appear to have good welds into the side rails.
The only area that could have more detail is the connection where the side rails meet the A frame.
Still no comment from the person who made the allegations from the previous pictures. But he can thank people. What does that say about the person who publicly stated that this horse float was built by, and again I quote, "unqualified unlicensed people who are not licensed vehicle body builders and definitely not engineers, the above image with examples of several structural faults in it being less than roadworthy with the possibility of catastrophic failure"

Here is a picture from the side.

Cheers Scott



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  #44  
Old 09-03-2018, 12:52:21 AM
Winchester Winchester is offline
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Default Re: Possibly a Problem for Grey Nomads and Others

Yes well I made the personal choice some time ago to put this particular individual on my "" Ignore List'' and as a consequence I can not make a comment on the construction of this horse float .However there has been a comment regarding the A frame and it's attachment to the side members . Of course we all are aware that this is a very critical part of the trailer. It's method of attachment ,ie is the A frame attached under the main frame or is it on top . The consequence is that all welds in the former method would be in compression ,the latter would render them in tension. I am assuming that the A frame would be exerting a downward load on the tow ball . The integrity of the welds in both examples is of the utmost importance any defects could lead to dire consequences . I may be ''Barking Up the Wrong Tree'' not having the facility to view the image of the said horse float . Perhaps as one member commented some detail of the A Frame attachment would allay any concern we may have .
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  #45  
Old 09-03-2018, 02:32:11 AM
Winchester Winchester is offline
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Default Re: Possibly a Problem for Grey Nomads and Others

Yes well having had my ''Two Bob's '' worth I thought it only fair to show a trailer that is being constructed to permanently mount a six HP sideshaft engine. You will notice that have chosen to attach the A frame on the underside of the main frame . This will render the welds to be under compression. bearing in mind that the towball weight will be affecting this .
I would welcome coments complimentry or in the negative.
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  #46  
Old 09-03-2018, 02:44:22 AM
Scotty 2 Scotty 2 is online now
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Default Re: Possibly a Problem for Grey Nomads and Others

Can you explain how you welded the draw bar and the plate that holds the hitch on please Mr Goose? It looks as though you welded across the drawbar. Did you?
While your at it, how did you position the axles and how did you mount the spring hangers etc?
What is going to be the weight rating of the trailer?

Cheers Scott
PS: for someone who cannot see my posts, you comment on them an awful lot.
PPS: I don't think I've ever seen a draw bar mounted on the top of a frame. Why would you? Wouldn't it interfere with what-ever it is you want to put on the trailer?
PPPS: none of the welds on the draw bar on the horse float, or any trailer I've ever built, go across the RHS (parallel to the cross members) used for the draw bar.


Last edited by Scotty 2; 09-03-2018 at 03:07:26 AM.
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  #47  
Old 09-03-2018, 03:53:30 AM
Power Power is online now
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Default Re: Possibly a Problem for Grey Nomads and Others

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Originally Posted by Winchester View Post
I would welcome coments complimentry or in the negative.
In my opinion, under mounting the draw bar does not put the entire weld in compression. Where the A frame attaches to the side rails will be in tension. The greatest bending moment will be where A frame attaches to side rails.

By picking up both the cross member and side rail at the A frame termination, you have distributed the forces. Running square tubing down the middle of the cross-members cuts the span, reduces deflection and better distributes the load. Using dual axles with a short rear overhang minimizes bending moments. In my opinion, you have a safe design.

Sometimes people making trailers forget that the loads are not static. As the vehicle and trailer go over potholes and bumps, momentary acceleration forces are generated. They can be several times the static load.
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  #48  
Old 09-03-2018, 04:03:19 AM
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Default Re: Possibly a Problem for Grey Nomads and Others

Scotty, one photo of the float it shows the chassis upside down but the hitch is on it right way up so people think the A frame is on top.
In regards to tension and compresion on the welds of the A frame, it makes no difference as the front is compressed and the back of the A frame is in tension ,and your correct in saying the welds should not go across a RHS but you do see it alot without failure.
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  #49  
Old 09-03-2018, 05:31:32 AM
Rusty Engines Rusty Engines is offline
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Default Re: Possibly a Problem for Grey Nomads and Others

Hi Scott why did you 'angle iron' over using box section
Ian
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  #50  
Old 09-03-2018, 05:47:45 AM
Winchester Winchester is offline
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Default Re: Possibly a Problem for Grey Nomads and Others

Daryl It was decided to fully weld all overlapping steel sections. Apart from the structural aspect corrosion prevention was a consideration .I have not seen any images of the "Horse Float but I gather that one photo showed the frame upside down and possibly this was seen as an underslung A frame .
As a point of interest does this horse float have an effluent tray ? Not being in the ''Horsey Set'' I dont know if it is standard practice to have such a item . If all overlaps are not seal welded then corrosion will no doubt occur
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  #51  
Old 09-03-2018, 06:01:13 AM
Darryl Darryl is online now
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Default Re: Possibly a Problem for Grey Nomads and Others

Good point Winchester ! I usually blast paint into the joints but its no showroom finish.
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  #52  
Old 09-03-2018, 09:51:07 AM
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Default Re: Possibly a Problem for Grey Nomads and Others

Yes well I feel that to go a long way to prevent the corrosion is to seal weld were possible .
This trailer will have an aluminum chequer plate floor . I have been thinking about how to fasten it and I am thinking strongly about an adhesive ,one of the Sikaflex products . The other alternative is CS head set screws but I dont like drilling and tapping into the RHS.any idea's?
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  #53  
Old 09-03-2018, 02:34:30 PM
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Default Re: Possibly a Problem for Grey Nomads and Others

Quote:
Originally Posted by Winchester View Post
Yes well I feel that to go a long way to prevent the corrosion is to seal weld were possible .
This trailer will have an aluminum chequer plate floor . I have been thinking about how to fasten it and I am thinking strongly about an adhesive ,one of the Sikaflex products . The other alternative is CS head set screws but I dont like drilling and tapping into the RHS.any idea's?
A little bit of both perhaps?
Sikaflex is good stuff. Since you plan aluminum on steel, you would want to isolate and seal real good so you do not make little galvanic batteries.

I would not drill/ tap square tube either. I would make meaty straps to go around it, with a flange for tapped hole and countersunk screw, or me being lazy, drill through,with countersink screws and nuts. I would dope up inside of straps real good so there is a moisture proof seal between everything.

What are your plans for the manure and urine? Aluminum does not do well in an acidic environment.
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  #54  
Old 09-03-2018, 05:11:57 PM
Scotty 2 Scotty 2 is online now
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Default Re: Possibly a Problem for Grey Nomads and Others

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darryl View Post
Scotty, one photo of the float it shows the chassis upside down but the hitch is on it right way up so people think the A frame is on top.
In regards to tension and compresion on the welds of the A frame, it makes no difference as the front is compressed and the back of the A frame is in tension ,and your correct in saying the welds should not go across a RHS but you do see it alot without failure.
Crikey.....your right. There is one picture where the chassis is upside down and the hitch is sitting on the top which is in fact the bottom. Not bad spotting for someone who can't see my posts.
In my opinion, joints don't have to be welded to be sealed. It's easier to wipe Sika or some other form of seal sealer into the joint isn't it
In the picture below you might see another horse float. In was in for repair. The A frame had cracked. The crack was across the top of both sides of the draw bar where it was welded to the main frame. This float was built by a major manufacturer and had angle iron as the side runners (probably easier to fit the ply floor) and the posts to hold the sides/top were RHS welded along top edge of the angle iron. RHS cross members were positioned on the bottom of the angle and welded.

Ian.....galvanised angle was used for the ease to clean and to make it easier to spot, and remedy, any corrosion. The RHS tends to corrode from the inside to out in cross members of horse floats.

So what are the structural faults Typak? Still no reply. Will there be a reply or are you full of sh!t and just say things to try and stir up trouble a troll?
If you don't/can't reply, then that tells the world your full of sh!t


As a side note: this horse float was not built under the carport or even in the shed in Warwick. It was built in Lismore (northern NSW) for reasons some may know. The person (a mate who I went through school with) who owned the business where it was built is very interested in Typak's comments that this float was built by unqualified unlicensed people who are not licensed vehicle body builders and definitely not engineers, the above image with examples of several structural faults in it being less than roadworthy with the possibility of catastrophic failure
He's the one who asked me to quote Typak's post so editing could not get rid of the original wording.

Cheers Scott
PS: Mr Goose: If your worried about some poo coming out.....horses aren't cows. Their crap stays in the float.
If your worried about some pee coming out the back.....don't follow so close.
If you want effluent tanks on floats then get them on mud carters and every truck that has a stock body on it before you work on the horse floats. While your at it, get all windows on cars to be permanently closed to stop all the crap people throw out their windows. I'm more offended by Macca's wrappers then a bit of pee.

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  #55  
Old 09-03-2018, 06:25:33 PM
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Default Re: Possibly a Problem for Grey Nomads and Others

Quote:
Originally Posted by Winchester View Post
As a point of interest does this horse float have an effluent tray ? Not being in the ''Horsey Set''
Well Winchester the 'Horsey Set', they are rather different and usually their hats are bigger than their farm, horsey ladies usually prefer to have a gelding or two corralled as well, that said the 'effluent tray' appears to be attached or obsessed with this thread ?......

Last edited by typak; 09-03-2018 at 07:58:10 PM. Reason: refine reply.
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  #56  
Old 09-04-2018, 12:48:59 AM
Winchester Winchester is offline
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Default Re: Possibly a Problem for Grey Nomads and Others

Yes well I must say that I have been tempted to remove an individual from my ''Ignore List''. This would enable me to view this horse float and make a considered comment. I seems from others comments that the owner built it himself and it meets all sound engineering standards ....something that we can learn from!. Something that has not come to light and that being is the float a double and which way are horses ,cows or whatever is transported ,facing .Are their rear ends facing the direction of travel or otherwise?
Now the question of galvanic action ,yes indeed something that must be born in mind . My intention is as I have done in the past to lay down a gasget of Sikaflex , thereby insulating both unfriendly metals.

Yes I have decided not to remove him from my ''List'
Better to be away from the constant , childish name calling.
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  #57  
Old 09-04-2018, 01:33:09 AM
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Default Re: Possibly a Problem for Grey Nomads and Others

Quote:
Originally Posted by Winchester View Post
Now the question of galvanic action ,yes indeed something that must be born in mind . My intention is as I have done in the past to lay down a gasget of Sikaflex , thereby insulating both unfriendly metals.
I am impressed! I think you got your stuff together.

Depending on how the floor and other equipment is secured, the strength can be much greater than frame calculations would show.

Long ago, when I took classes in structural design, we were only allowed to design to the strength of the truss. There were 1/4 to 1/2 steel plates continuously welded to the top and bottom flanges of the trusses, creating a double diaphragm, which would more than triple the load carrying ability of the structure, but that could not be shown in calculations.

The same goes for your horse transporter. Depending on how they are secured, the aluminum decking and other items can become load bearing, making your transporter even stronger.
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  #58  
Old 09-04-2018, 02:46:25 AM
Winchester Winchester is offline
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Default Re: Possibly a Problem for Grey Nomads and Others

Yes well Power thank you for your comments . I must correct you though. My trailer is not for the equine or horse flesh movement . It will carry in a permanent state a six HP oil engine . I am also hoping in it's design that it may have a dual use , ie another engine to interchange .....however first things first.
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Old 09-04-2018, 04:57:01 AM
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Default Re: Possibly a Problem for Grey Nomads and Others

Did you say six " horse power" winchester ? That'll need an effluent tray.
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  #60  
Old 09-04-2018, 05:18:10 AM
Winchester Winchester is offline
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Default Re: Possibly a Problem for Grey Nomads and Others

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Originally Posted by Darryl View Post
Did you say six " horse power" winchester ? That'll need an effluent tray.
Yes well Daryl ,very droll appreciate your quick wit in this horsey subject.
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