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John Smyth Information


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  #1  
Old 12-25-2011, 04:28:34 PM
Andy Fetko Andy Fetko is offline
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Default John Smyth Information

I just picked up a 1913 John Smyth 1 1/2 hp engine, I'm having a hard time finding out any info on the company. I know it's a waterloo engine but would like more info on the John Smyth co itself . Also can anyone help me with info on John smyth Faultless? How would I determine if my engine could be a faultless or a John Smyth? Are they that uncommon of a nameplate? Thanks everyone ,looking forward to hearing something.
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Old 12-25-2011, 05:56:09 PM
Pat Barrett Pat Barrett is offline
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Default John Smyth Information

I have one, mine is abut a 2-4 hp. The company was in Chicago, and was obviously a large mercantile. They marketed many things, and re-branded engines was one of them. If you've got a BYB (BIG YELLOW BOOK) Check in there and see, I think it's listed and may give a brief run down. By the way, mine's the best and slowest running engine I have.
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  #3  
Old 12-25-2011, 08:34:52 PM
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Default Re: John Smyth Information

John Smyth Merchandising sold the "Faultess" line of engines, made by Waterloo. Not to be confused with the Kansas City Faultless. I don't recall seeing a John Smyth that was not a Waterloo, nor have I seen one newer than 1915. They are not real uncommon, I would guess that Majestic, Sandow and Eaton are the big three contract engines, with Faultless and Wonder taking the next couple spots.

[QUOTE=andy fetko; How would I determine if my engine could be a faultless or a John Smyth? [/QUOTE]
Does your engine not have a tag?
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Old 12-25-2011, 08:50:00 PM
GW Eddy GW Eddy is offline
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Default Re: John Smyth Information

I have a 2 1/2 hp engine tagged both faultless and john smyth, I can do some history on these ,I have several original cataloges.

I have a 1912 catalog that shows sizes 1 1/2 hp 2 1/4 hp, 4 1/2 hp, 6,8, and 12 hp. the 1 1/2 hp was 28.75 new. 3 3/4 bore, 5 1/2 inch stroke 4 by 4 inch pulley 500 rpm shipping weight 350lbs., if you wanted optional cart it is 34.75 including engine shipped out of waterloo iowa. looking at the color pictures they are a maroon or real dark red.
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Old 12-25-2011, 09:09:27 PM
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Photo Re: John Smyth Information

Here are some pictures of my 1 1/2 H.P. John Smyth Faultless. I am not sure it is the original color. I think Waterloo built engines for at least 66 different company's. Mine has only the John Smyth tag with the Faultless script on the side.
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Old 12-25-2011, 09:23:52 PM
Andy Fetko Andy Fetko is offline
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Default Re: John Smyth Information

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Wehrman View Post
John Smyth Merchandising sold the "Faultess" line of engines, made by Waterloo. Not to be confused with the Kansas City Faultless. I don't recall seeing a John Smyth that was not a Waterloo, nor have I seen one newer than 1915. They are not real uncommon, I would guess that Majestic, Sandow and Eaton are the big three contract engines, with Faultless and Wonder taking the next couple spots.

Does your engine not have a tag?
It does say John Smyth ,not faultless but I 'm asking if all John smyth engines were called faultless????????
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Old 12-25-2011, 10:08:22 PM
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Default Re: John Smyth Information

I have an air cooled John Smyth that is basically an early air cooled Nelson Brothers. It has the John Smyth tag.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HKlIFYoCqM
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Old 12-25-2011, 11:02:52 PM
Andy Fetko Andy Fetko is offline
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Default Re: John Smyth Information

Would love to see those pics if possiable, Thanks for your reply.
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Old 12-25-2011, 11:34:36 PM
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Default Re: John Smyth Information

I think if it is a Waterloo and has a John Smyth tag it is a Faultess. The one I have makes no mention of Faultless on the tag.
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Old 12-26-2011, 08:41:40 AM
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Photo Re: John Smyth Information

This engine is tagged "John Smyth" there are no other indications of her being a Faultless. Other than a catalog Jim Martin has from 1912. According to the advertisement, You could have a nice little 1 & 3/4 horse power engine that was air cooled but, if you needed more power; Waterloo Gasoline Engine Company could supply all the power that you would ever need. From 1 & 3/4hp all the way up to a Hopper Cooled 12hp engine.

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Old 12-26-2011, 10:17:08 AM
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Default Re: John Smyth Information

Ther are some diffreences between the faultless and smythe,, faultless has real small gov weights, taper fit ignitor no speed lever. I have a 1 1/2 smythe and it has 1/2 inch lunkenheimer carb, but my 1 1/2 hp faultless has 3/4 lunkenheimer. the heads are diffrnt pipe size. My air cooled smythe has the tag on the skids, several faultess engines ive seen dont have tags on the engine or even a place for them. hope this helps.
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Old 12-26-2011, 10:25:07 AM
Andy Fetko Andy Fetko is offline
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Default Re: John Smyth Information

Yes it helps a great deal thank you. So now I know it's a Smyth for sure, it has the larger gov weights and only a smyth tag on it.Now to move forward I've been looking for some parts already and getting dead ending kinda for waterloo engine parts know of any good sources?
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Old 12-26-2011, 11:27:04 AM
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Default Re: John Smyth Information

Quote:
Originally Posted by GW Eddy View Post
Ther are some diffreences between the faultless and smythe,, faultless has real small gov weights, taper fit ignitor no speed lever. I have a 1 1/2 smythe and it has 1/2 inch lunkenheimer carb, but my 1 1/2 hp faultless has 3/4 lunkenheimer.
Do you think that they are both Waterloos?
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Old 12-26-2011, 12:37:37 PM
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Default Re: John Smyth Information

I think we are barking up a couple different trees here. The George Miller Faultless from K.C. was a little different engine and used a tapered ignitor. Did miller also make his own engines out of Iowa? This area is a little gray, for me at least, since Miller was an officer of some sort for Waterloo Gas Engine Co. I have not seen it all, but I've never seen a Waterloo-Smyth with a speed control lever, only the contract-style governor with the weights on the flywheel hub. Nor have I seen a Smyth that said Faultless on the tag. It is easy enough to establish that Smyth bought engines from W.G.E. and sold them as the Faultless line of engines for a fairly short time. So, if you have a Waterloo engine with a Smyth tag and no paint is it not a "Faultless"? By the same token, if you bought an engine that came from Sears&Roebuck in 1916 that was made by Hercules, and it is evident that Sears called their engine line Economy in 1916, but the paint fell off over the last 80 years, is it not an Economy? Anybody have a Faultless tag?

Last edited by Engine Whisperer; 12-26-2011 at 12:56:45 PM.
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Old 12-26-2011, 01:37:26 PM
GW Eddy GW Eddy is offline
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Default Re: John Smyth Information

I have a 2 1/2 hp with both name on the tag of faultless and smythe, sears also sold a waterloo with the economy tag on it, They only sold them for a short time, my brother has a 4 hp with the economy tag, lots of interesting history on these.
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Old 12-26-2011, 01:53:26 PM
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Default Re: John Smyth Information

The Waterloo Economy is one of the few brands with a flyball style governor and a speed lever isn't it?
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Old 09-20-2019, 04:21:32 PM
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Default Re: John Smyth Information

I have an 1914 8 HP Smyth that worked a mine in Butte. Any idea what the muffler looked like? I'm guessing a cast ball. I think this was in an engine shed on skids and the exhaust was piped outside, because it looks like someone hacked off the pipe on the exhaust port a long time ago.

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