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Generators & Electric Motors General Discussion Antique Generators and Old Electric Motors: Questions and answers about restoring and showing old power generation systems.

Generators & Electric Motors General Discussion

Wisconsin/Winpower Need Help Pricing a Generator


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  #11  
Old 09-24-2018, 02:01:04 PM
Newoldstock Newoldstock is offline
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Default Re: Wisconsin/Winpower Need Help Pricing a Generator

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vanman View Post
Lol! A little rabble rousing, eh? Those sellers really are out of touch.

I appreciate what you're saying. But I just don't like modern stuff. It's difficult for me to put a finger on it, but I guess it comes down to design philosophy. With old stuff, it is evident that they were proud of what they were building. Modern stuff appears as if they absolutely couldn't care less.

It *might* be 120/240 three phase, four wire. "Delta high leg". My favorite.
Only in America.... ( and little colder America like, Canada by default )
Not trying to crank people up here but Delta high leg and Edison 3 wire are about the stupidest things ever.

We should be on 50hz and 240/380 systems
I am even quite excepting of ring circuits if it means cheaper less wire and and safer.
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  #12  
Old 09-24-2018, 02:34:05 PM
Vanman Vanman is offline
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Default Re: Wisconsin/Winpower Need Help Pricing a Generator

If we go back to the beginnings, incandescent lamps were and are more efficient and more rugged when designed for lower voltage, and of course the systems themselves are more efficient at higher voltage.

US bulbs enjoyed considerable superiority over their European counterparts, and the Edison three wire system makes up the shortfall of the lower system voltage (in part, at least). So, in that context, the system is brilliant. Of course everything is a compromise of some sort.

Agreed, ring circuits are a definite advantage.

I like the delta high leg system since it supplies 120 volts for those items that require it, and a full 240 volts, single and three phase, for everything else. I have never liked 208 volts.
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Old 09-24-2018, 02:38:30 PM
scotty scotty is offline
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Default Re: Wisconsin/Winpower Need Help Pricing a Generator

I was able to get a few more pics of the generator tag. And I don't know what a 4 leg delta high is, but the schematics I found for the unit idicates 4 legs off the armature? I think it was three powers and one neutral? Forgive my lack of knowledge with electricity. I think it is a misprint on the tag though, because the spec sheet indicates it as a 120/208 (for model # GR15W4-D).
I'll put a link in here to the schematics and specs I found.
SCHEMATICS http://www.wincogen.com/wp-content/u...parts_list.pdf
SPEC SHEET http://www.wincogen.com/wp-content/u...spec_sheet.pdf
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  #14  
Old 09-24-2018, 02:44:07 PM
scotty scotty is offline
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Default Re: Wisconsin/Winpower Need Help Pricing a Generator

[QUOTE=scotty;1515901]I think it is a misprint on the tag though, because the spec sheet indicates it as a 120/208 (for model # GR15W4-D).

Although, I should add that the actual model # on the tag (GRW15W4DN) is not the same as the spec sheet. That was the closest I could find for a model #.
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  #15  
Old 09-24-2018, 03:10:46 PM
Newoldstock Newoldstock is offline
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Default Re: Wisconsin/Winpower Need Help Pricing a Generator

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vanman View Post
incandescent lamps were and are more efficient and more rugged when designed for lower voltage,

Edison three wire system makes up the shortfall of the lower system voltage (in part, at least). So, in that context, the system is brilliant. Of course everything is a compromise of some sort.

Agreed, ring circuits are a definite advantage.

I have never liked 208 volts.
I don't know where you got information like that.
The higher the operating voltage the whiter, brighter and more efficient.

Yup Edison, but he was no Tesla HA HA...

I don't think 208 likes you very much.
Hash tag #Me208!!!

Please laugh at my jokes.
But I am serious about the light bulb part.
We all know what we like and have reasons for it.
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Old 09-24-2018, 03:33:21 PM
Steve Dawkins Steve Dawkins is offline
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Default Re: Wisconsin/Winpower Need Help Pricing a Generator

Off topic...277 volts doesn't like me. It bites hard!
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  #17  
Old 09-24-2018, 03:34:49 PM
Vanman Vanman is offline
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Default Re: Wisconsin/Winpower Need Help Pricing a Generator

Interesting. I hate typos on nameplates, but the kw, kva, amps, and pf are all in agreement for a 120/208 voltage.

Once you get it running and generating, a voltmeter will reveal the truth.

Newoldstock, yes, laughing at the jokes.

It is indeed a fundamental characteristic of incandescent lamps, that two otherwise identical bulbs- watts, rated life, basic design, etc, when designed for different voltages, the lower voltage lamp will have higher output, higher color temperature, and higher lumens per watt.

This is due to the fact that concentrated filaments are more efficient. This is why filaments evolved from the single strand of around ~24" long (for 120 volts), to the single helix of two or three inches long, then to the double helix that's only an inch or so long. So, a filament that is half as long and twice as thick (ie designed for 120 volts vs 240 volts) will be more efficient, all else being equal. Obviously there is some lower limit of practicality, and that would vary with lamp size.

If you look up the specs for 240 volt lamps, they are notably less efficient when compared to otherwise identical 120 volt lamps.

And, of course, the thicker filament is always going to be more rugged.
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  #18  
Old 09-24-2018, 04:44:06 PM
Newoldstock Newoldstock is offline
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Default Re: Wisconsin/Winpower Need Help Pricing a Generator

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Originally Posted by Steve Dawkins View Post
Off topic...277 volts doesn't like me. It bites hard!
Higher you go the more likely you are really not going to like it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vanman View Post
If you look up the specs for 240 volt lamps, they are notably less efficient when compared to otherwise identical 120 volt lamps.
You had me starting to doubt myself.
But I went to wiki and they say a 100 watt bulb at 120 volts is 17 lm per watt and at 230 13 lm per watt.
SO your right!

Not sure how I go to where I was, maybe thinking the efficiency goes up with the wattage?
Not sure, but I owe you a beer.

We should make bets like this that are really hard to collect on.....
Then we never run out of beer.
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  #19  
Old 09-24-2018, 06:57:14 PM
Kevin K Kevin K is offline
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Default Re: Wisconsin/Winpower Need Help Pricing a Generator

You might try selling it as a running engine, the way this Craigslist seller is doing:

"4 cylinder Wisconsin engine connected to a generator set up to run on propane was swapped out for a new generator. Great engine for many uses. Very clean $500 "
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  #20  
Old 09-24-2018, 07:49:02 PM
Newoldstock Newoldstock is offline
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Default Re: Wisconsin/Winpower Need Help Pricing a Generator

That is a different animal.

OHV V4 still in production.
Cheap too!
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