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1965 Kohler 6.5R22 to be Placed into Service


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  #41  
Old 07-14-2018, 01:58:59 AM
dkamp dkamp is offline
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Default Re: 1965 Kohler 6.5R22 to be Placed into Service

It's not water damage, Keith- if it was water damage while sitting, you'd have two up higher, and two down lower.

If you've got over a hundred pounds of compression, then IGNORE IT. Look at how thick the skirt is on those pistons, and ask yourself just how much they're gonna expand when they're warm. At running temp, the variation you're seeing visually, will probably not even exist.

Clean up the bearings, put it back together with new gaskets and seals, and put it back to work!!!
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Old 07-14-2018, 02:53:43 PM
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Default Re: 1965 Kohler 6.5R22 to be Placed into Service

I agree with you both. Also I had posted this project on the Facebook. What an awful site. But a good old friend of mine called and we chatted about it for a while too, and he said the same thing, not to worry about the cylinder grooves.

I do want to replace the two damaged bearings, and I bought some Plastigage to check the others.

The reasons that I feel that the grooves are rust are because an inline four will naturally coast to a stop with all pistons at close to the same level (1/2 way up). One will be on intake, one will be on exhaust, but one will be on compression and one will be on power (but no ignition) . So those latter two will settle the engine to a point half way on each.

The grooves feel a little rough at their deepest point, like the rings haven't smoothed them yet. Maybe they skip right over that point. The "ramps" leading into and out of them are smooth.

It ran great and had good compression, so... Run it I guess.

I'll check out the cam and lifters and bearings, clean everything up, then it's time to scrounge up.some parts and put it back together.
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Old 07-27-2018, 08:15:14 PM
Vanman Vanman is offline
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Default Re: 1965 Kohler 6.5R22 to be Placed into Service

Wow, finally moving forward a bit. I just Plastigaged the #2 and #3 rod bearings (the two good ones). They measure between .0015 and .002. Spec is .001 - .0025, so those will stay. Next to check the main bearings.
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Old 08-13-2018, 11:45:21 PM
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Default Re: 1965 Kohler 6.5R22 to be Placed into Service

I just checked the three main bearings tonight. They measure .003" or just a *hair* more. Spec is .001 - .0035, so they're going to stay.

Next I have to figure out how to get the valve springs out, or get a valve spring compressor. Was going to borrow one from a friend, but it's only for overhead valves. I need on one that looks like a "C" clamp...
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Old 08-14-2018, 01:16:05 AM
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Default Re: 1965 Kohler 6.5R22 to be Placed into Service

Vanman, Found this on the web: http://www.homemadetools.net/homemad...ing-compressor

If you want to borrow one and pay postage both ways from my place in central Calif, I have one of these: https://www.ebay.com/itm/NIB-Flathea...sid=m570.l1313
There is 21 listings on ebay if you want to buy one but you are more than welcome to borrow mine.

As you turn the knob, the one part stays at the follower and the other part pushes up on the valve spring cap. You hold the valve down in the block or lightly and squarely tap the valve head down and the keepers will release. I usd mine on my 134 ci, 1939 Willys engine.
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Old 08-14-2018, 01:42:54 PM
Vanman Vanman is offline
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Default Re: 1965 Kohler 6.5R22 to be Placed into Service

Wow, that's really nice of you to offer!

I really like the one in the box, and enjoy collecting tools, especially good old ones, so I think I'll go for it. I have a Ford A and still hold out hope of getting a Waukesha driven Kohler some day. So theoretically might use it a few times eventually.

I've sent the seller a message asking what he can do for the spring compressor and the keeper tool he has in another listing...
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Old 08-14-2018, 02:35:36 PM
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Default Re: 1965 Kohler 6.5R22 to be Placed into Service

In the 50 years I have worked on OHV and flatheads, I have just used a small screw driver with a bit of stiff grease on the inside and outside of the keeper to install them. It has always worked.
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Old 08-14-2018, 08:20:25 PM
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Default Re: 1965 Kohler 6.5R22 to be Placed into Service

Keith- I was working on a 134ish Wookie ah... two years ago mebbie... and found that my common type compressor didn't work. I grabbed some metal scraps and made up one to fit that was the C-clamp shape... took me longer to think it up than cut and weld, and I just used a bolt and nut for the complicated end...

I don't recall how small the 'pocket' on my L600 was... it's been ten years since I did it, but I think I used screwdriver to wedge the keepers out, in which case I probably just crammed it back together with bass-player fingers. I'm certain it's too small for any 'common' flathead-type compressor. I'll look in my stuff and see if there's a small one in my kit... if so, I could loan it to 'ya for a while.
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Old 08-15-2018, 07:56:59 PM
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Default Re: 1965 Kohler 6.5R22 to be Placed into Service

Hmm, thank you for the offer... I have already sprung for that nice one in the box, so I'll see how it goes. They are pretty small springs. I can compress them with my fingers, though not easily. I do not have bass player fingers though.

Last edited by Vanman; 08-16-2018 at 08:06:25 PM.
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Old 08-19-2018, 03:41:01 PM
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Default Re: 1965 Kohler 6.5R22 to be Placed into Service

The valve spring compressor arrived yesterday, and I had a chance to try it today. Wow. Quality tools are such a pleasure to work with. I didn't realize it, but this one is adjustable to fit different sized springs. Adjusted properly, it fits the little Kohler springs perfectly, and it works perfectly. A very welcome addition to my tool collection. Now I need more flatheads lol.

A magnet made keeper retrieval as easy as pie.

Now for the silly question. How do I remove the valve spring after the valve is removed?
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Old 08-19-2018, 06:52:34 PM
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Default Re: 1965 Kohler 6.5R22 to be Placed into Service

I wish I had on of those tools when I did mine. Of course my valves were stuck. I removed the cam to get the lifters out. Had to turn the block over to get to them. Then the springs had to be kinda twisted out. She's almost naked, better put up a curtain!

I think I had to turn the adjustment nuts to the bottom first.
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Old 08-19-2018, 07:16:37 PM
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Default Re: 1965 Kohler 6.5R22 to be Placed into Service

LOL! I had a big bag over her for awhile, to keep the dust out. But when it became apparent that COMPLETE disassembly was going to occur, I stopped bothering.

In the meantime, I have removed all of the valves. None of them were stuck, they all just glided out easily. So that was nice.

Next I removed the dealios (Can't believe I just said that. But I don't know what they're called off hand lol). That the springs sit on (that the keepers engage). This left the springs nice and loose.

I then turned the block on it's side, pushed all the tappets away from the cam and... The cam does not "carefully guide out of the block to the front or rear". Hmmm... Maybe a little love tap from behind?
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Old 08-19-2018, 09:30:04 PM
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Default Re: 1965 Kohler 6.5R22 to be Placed into Service

Dealoius?? Cam followers or lifters?
EASY on the Tapping Pardner!! Good job Keith! I think I remember it coming out the rear(:>>> HAHAHAH!~

The back plate ? and the front plate are the ... sorry It must have come out the front, the front has a pin with a spring to keep it against the rear plate.

But when I removed mine I had both ends uncovered.
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Old 08-19-2018, 10:09:38 PM
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Default Re: 1965 Kohler 6.5R22 to be Placed into Service

OK, I got it out. It turns out that the instructions in the manual I have are wrong. Or at least it's confusing. The manual states that the cam gear need not be removed if it isn't damaged. And then states that the cam may be removed either through the front or back. That obviously implies the cam gear has been removed (to go out the back). I *assumed* that it could still come out the front with the gear attached. Since it said removing the gear wasn't necessary!

Anyway, it IS necessary lol. The steel plate in the front will not let the cam pass through it from behind. And the plate cannot be removed without first removing the gear.

All parts look good so far, though I haven't given them a closeup inspection yet.
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Old 08-19-2018, 11:12:35 PM
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Default Re: 1965 Kohler 6.5R22 to be Placed into Service

Vanman, You may know this but I will say that it is very important to keep each cam follower/lifter with its respective cam lobe. Don't let them get mixed up. I have used a piece of cardboard and made holes in it to push the lifters in. Then mark the cardboard "front or back of engine" on one end to correspond where each one goes. Same with the valves unless you plan on replacing them all. Don't let the main or rod caps get mixed up either. Just a suggestion.....
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Old 08-20-2018, 12:43:56 AM
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Default Re: 1965 Kohler 6.5R22 to be Placed into Service

Yes, I have them arranged how they came out of the engine, and I'll be careful to keep them that way.

Cardboard trick is a good idea. I used to do that for push rods. And use an egg carton for lifters and such.

Thanks,
Keith
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Old 08-26-2018, 01:27:25 AM
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Default Re: 1965 Kohler 6.5R22 to be Placed into Service

Finally got a chance to inspect the cam and tappets today. They look pretty good, to my untrained eye. Obviously used, but nothing egregious looking. It is evident that all of the tappets have been rotating, so that's good. The tips of the lobes have shiny spots in different parts. Really shows why not to mix up the tappets.

Don't know if my dumb smart phone (thanks Johnny C! My new favorite term!) can take photos good enough to show what I see... Here's an overview shot.

Tomorrow I'll check piston ring end gap.
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Old 09-07-2018, 03:25:59 AM
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Default Re: 1965 Kohler 6.5R22 to be Placed into Service

Well, I didn't get to the rings "tomorrow" as I'd hoped, but I did remove them from the pistons tonight. Checked the end gap on one at 0.026". Hmmm... Also found one broken oil ring. And I did not find all of the pieces. That's puzzling!
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Old 09-07-2018, 06:33:45 AM
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Default Re: 1965 Kohler 6.5R22 to be Placed into Service

Probably in the sludge you removed from the pan. Let me know if you want the parts we discussed. Chris
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Old 09-07-2018, 03:05:57 PM
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Default Re: 1965 Kohler 6.5R22 to be Placed into Service

Hey Chris, yeah, I was thinking about those rings you mentioned when I saw the broken one and when I found such a large end gap on the first one I checked.

I'll check the rest of them, report back, then go from there.

The weird part about the missing ring bits is there are no score marks on the piston or the bore where they "made their escape". This is good, of course! But, how did they get out??

Keith
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