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Fuels and Alternative Fuels Materials or substances that can be used as a fuel, waste oils, vegetable oils or animal fats, which can be used alone, or blended with fossil fuels.

Fuels and Alternative Fuels

Do Hydrogen Generator Fuel Cells Work?


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  #1  
Old 05-17-2011, 09:37:02 AM
TheEngineGal TheEngineGal is offline
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Default Do Hydrogen Generator Fuel Cells Work?

Do Hydrogen Generator Fuel Cell things work? They say the that they give you better gas milage. Now, I would maybe think its a scam, but at a show once this guy had them in his Model A, and he told me about them and swore they worked. Has anyone else used these?
Here's a link to it:

http://www.ecrater.com/p/3398098/com...ator-fuel-cell
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Old 05-17-2011, 10:19:38 AM
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Elden DuRand Elden DuRand is offline
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Default Re: Do Hydrogen Generator Fuel Cells Work?

Gal:

In a word, no.

The process of making hydrogen out of water using electricity (or chemical means) uses a lot more energy than it produces.

Scam!

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Old 05-17-2011, 10:29:21 AM
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Default Re: Do Hydrogen Generator Fuel Cells Work?

I know of a local over the road trucking company that purchased several units and installed them on their big trucks. Short story the units are all in the trash pile now.
Merton
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Old 05-17-2011, 10:51:57 AM
Candy T. Candy T. is offline
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Default Re: Do Hydrogen Generator Fuel Cells Work?

Hi EngineGal,

My Dad uses them in his Ford truck and travels over the country. He is the one that got my family started on them. They do work! The gas mileage did increased. I wouldn't claim by leaps and bounds though. But, every mile counts these days.

When my husband installed one on his truck, you could hear the difference right off. The old truck ran smooth.

The trick is using the right wiring and mix of baking soda and water. The more hydro. gens you add the better the mileage. We installed an on/off switch with a indicator light in the dashboard of the truck. Got to have a safety switch.

Go for it if you have an older vehicle. I wouldn't try it on a newer one with all of their computer chips and sensor readings though. It might make your warranty null and void.

Good Luck!
Candy
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Old 05-17-2011, 10:56:21 AM
TheEngineGal TheEngineGal is offline
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Default Re: Do Hydrogen Generator Fuel Cells Work?

Yeah, I guess it wouldn't be a great idea for a newer truck even if they did work. I keep forgetting about all the stupid computer stuff in them now. Thanks for the tips yall.
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Old 05-17-2011, 04:28:49 PM
dalmatiangirl61 dalmatiangirl61 is offline
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Default Re: Do Hydrogen Generator Fuel Cells Work?

I looked into these types of systems a few years ago, have not tried one. One the one hand I see it has potential, on the other hand I think it would need more refinement to achieve that potential. The first problem is a lack of metering of the HHO gas(fuel), all the units I've seen are just a hose dumping the HHO into the intake. Any modern engine has O2 sensors, the O in the HHO gas will cause the sensor to detect a higher level of O and therefore computer ADDS more fuel(gas/diesel), thereby lowering mileage. Some folks have added a rheostat type control to fool the O2 sensor but without a direct readout showing what happening in the mix it just looks like an accident waiting to happen, example would be your cruising down the highway with the HHO generator cranking away so your turn fuel delivery down by fooling O2 sensor, if your HHO generator stops working you now start running lean, happily oblivious to the fact your cooking your engine. The additional load on the alternator needs to be factored in too, some good studies on this would be nice to see. And a mason jar HHO generator is just a tad questionable too, not saying they won't work, it just lacks structural integrity.

Some really good testing is needed on this subject.
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Old 05-17-2011, 05:03:22 PM
Tim0477 Tim0477 is offline
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Default Re: Do Hydrogen Generator Fuel Cells Work?

It takes mechanical energy from the engine to spin the alternator which converts that energy into electrical energy to separate the hydrogen and oxygen (chemical energy). This hydrogen and oxygen is then fed into the engine in hopes of producing mechanical energy again. The way I see it is that if each energy conversion was 100% efficient, the best you could hope for is to break even. Of course 100% efficiency is impossible, so I don't see how this could improve anything. I say scam.

Tim
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Old 05-17-2011, 08:56:16 PM
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Default Re: Do Hydrogen Generator Fuel Cells Work?

Saw a video on a local TV station where the generator used a pulsed (oscillating?) current and greatly improved Hydrogen production. Looked like a simple circuit board to control it. If you saw the characters that made the video you know it had to be simple...
Can't find it off hand, but here is the TV station web site. Pretty minimal information.
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Old 05-17-2011, 10:35:57 PM
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Default Re: Do Hydrogen Generator Fuel Cells Work?

These will not produce enough fuel to even run a 10 HP engine.
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Old 05-18-2011, 12:43:04 AM
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Default Re: Do Hydrogen Generator Fuel Cells Work?

Whoops! Forgot the link.
http://www.knlc.tv/test2/knlc-channel-24-2/
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Old 05-18-2011, 09:32:35 AM
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Default Re: Do Hydrogen Generator Fuel Cells Work?

I read an article that pretty much debunked the whole mess. The author demonstrated through actual math that the amount of electricity required to separate the hydrogen and the oxygen in any amount to actually be useful in reducing the amount of fuel required to power an engine far exceeded the amperage commonly available in most automotive electrical systems. The fuel savings achieved by most of these systems is derived from the fact that most involve installing some kind of resistor on the air intake sensor when you are installing the kit they provide. This resistor or whatever device they send tricks the on board computer into reading the outside air temperature into something that is far different than it actually is, like a 100 degrees hotter or colder or something like that. The computer responds by leaning out the air fuel mixture to adjust to what it "thinks" the air temperature is instead of what it really is. So the motorist starts getting much better fuel mileage and they believe that it is all due to the hydrogen generator. This all works well and good until the engine gets into a situation where it starts detonating due to lack of fuel and damages the engine. I think this article was in the magazine Motor Age, had it saved for a while.
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Old 11-03-2012, 11:53:32 PM
Kevin O. Pulver Kevin O. Pulver is offline
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Default Re: Do Hydrogen Generator Fuel Cells Work?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim0477 View Post
It takes mechanical energy from the engine to spin the alternator which converts that energy into electrical energy to separate the hydrogen and oxygen (chemical energy). This hydrogen and oxygen is then fed into the engine in hopes of producing mechanical energy again. The way I see it is that if each energy conversion was 100% efficient, the best you could hope for is to break even. Of course 100% efficiency is impossible, so I don't see how this could improve anything. I say scam.

Tim
Tim may be exactly correct in his post above, but couldn't we say the same thing about turbo chargers? i.e. they won't add any benefit because the amount of energy to spin them is only equal to (not greater than) the energy you get out of them? Apparently not, because we all know they work.

Call me a dreamer, but all the "impossible" things we enjoy, like heavier than air flight have always been accomplished by those who refused to quit trying.
Perhaps there IS a better, cheaper way to break hydrogen free from water, but it won't be found by someone who thinks it's impossible.
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Old 11-04-2012, 12:56:50 AM
pegasuspinto pegasuspinto is offline
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Default Re: Do Hydrogen Generator Fuel Cells Work?

A turbo takes wasted heat energy in the exhaust and compresses the intake oxygen to a denser state so more fuel can be injected and the engine can make more power. it's not a free lunch at all, and in fact if you used the turbo to drive a generator instead of a compressor, while it would be recovering some of the waste energy it would also be adding backpressure and costing you engine power too. Some aircraft engines used a 'power recovery turbine' in the exhaust stream that was geared to add additional crankshaft torque.
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