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Predator Generators


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  #121  
Old 03-22-2018, 05:47:21 PM
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Default Re: Predator Generators

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Originally Posted by Birken Vogt View Post
If it is a copy of a Honda it shouldn't be that hard to get it to last like a Honda. 3000 hours is not that great but it is getting pretty close. So long as they don't throw a rod or do something terrible and last until they gracefully wear out, that is what I would call good quality.
3000 hours on a little air cooled screamer generator would be nothing short of amazing and admirable. When I was a Thermo-King tech the 2 and 3 cyl Yanmar water cooled diesels barely made just that before they needed rebuilding and those are built much better than air cooled engines are. The 1500 hours Thaumaturge has on his is great. Thats a lot of hours at 3600 rpms.
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  #122  
Old 03-22-2018, 05:50:42 PM
Birken Vogt Birken Vogt is offline
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Default Re: Predator Generators

I expect to get 4000 hours from a Kohler 3600 v-twin and frequently see them past 5000 but I tell the owners not to count on it. Genuine Honda seems to do about the same, as far as the ones that have hour meters on them.
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  #123  
Old 04-08-2018, 04:35:54 PM
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Default Re: Predator Generators

Hello first thanks for looking and trying to help. I have a 68530# predator 7000 watt 8750 running. Really need help I have done tons of looking around and can't seem to find what I need. Short story it puts out 2.2 vac and manually charging stator from battery no change. But also can't find broken connection or any type of short grounding to rod.

Long story :
Pull all the wires coming from stator so its isolated. Running l1 and l2 is at 2.5 vac and same for r1 and r2. Brand new contacts (thought was issued as original wasn't making contact.) Next slip ring to the brushes terminals is about. 03 ohms. When running avr puts about 12.9 (low ? 24v?) To the brushes and that's where I get my 2.5 vac. (Same results at the plug before messing tearing into).
If I force 12volts into brushes from battery same thing no change.
Pulling the rotor and testing for any ground no matter which of the 3 points on rotor nothing is grounding out. 0l on all other than of courses two solder ends connecting to slip rings rings which each is .01 ohm. However from one end to middle of the two coils I do get about. 22 ohms resistance.

Side note as far as avr the voltage output is low I know this but I'm curious what the four wire plug going to stator is for. 2 I assume are the ac pick up and other two DC pick up? Not sure

Again thanks for help not sure what to do.
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  #124  
Old 04-08-2018, 04:45:28 PM
GenDan GenDan is offline
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Default Re: Predator Generators

Error in one of my statements above. I'm getting 5v DC going to brushes not as I stated 12.9 thanks you

---------- Post added at 03:45:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:42:51 PM ----------

What should I get for ohms reading from slip ring to other slip ring? I'm getting 0l and is that right. I'm not able to find any rectifier on the rotor to be checked.
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  #125  
Old 04-08-2018, 04:56:11 PM
Thaumaturge Thaumaturge is offline
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Default Re: Predator Generators

I'll look at diagram and get back to you. If you want to download it yourself look back in this thread for the link. Link in post #109
Doc
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  #126  
Old 04-08-2018, 05:03:15 PM
GenDan GenDan is offline
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Default Re: Predator Generators

Thanks for your help! I'll look that up. My only thought is the rotor is shot burnt out somewhere in windings where I can't see any evidence. Because I should have continuity between the slip rings 1 and 2 and I got 0l on ohms testing. I do know the copper wires are connected to slip rings as I tested those to respected ring and .01 ohm resistance.
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  #127  
Old 04-08-2018, 05:18:17 PM
Thaumaturge Thaumaturge is offline
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Default Re: Predator Generators

Okay, the unknown connector from stator is likely used for DC charger on electric start models.

It is tough measuring coils with an ohm meter. But you shouldn't be getting 0 slip ring to slip ring. It is sounding like you might have a shorted rotor. I'd try running a 12v battery between the slip rings and see if you have a dead short, or just how much current it draws. The manual I have with wiring diagram is for the 6500, but think drawing likely the same. Here is diagram.
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  #128  
Old 04-08-2018, 05:27:18 PM
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Default Re: Predator Generators

Thanks for your help I was a little confused but on path. Yes one coil is bad of the two. I dont see anywhere apparent burnt or unconnected. Looks like they coil is trash. l dont think one side of cool can be rewound right?
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  #129  
Old 04-08-2018, 05:42:52 PM
Thaumaturge Thaumaturge is offline
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Default Re: Predator Generators

As another thought; what do you get out of DC outlet when running?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GenDan View Post
Thanks for your help I was a little confused but on path. Yes one coil is bad of the two. I dont see anywhere apparent burnt or unconnected. Looks like they coil is trash. l dont think one side of cool can be rewound right?
Talking abot rotor coil right?

Think rotor is just one coil.
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  #130  
Old 04-08-2018, 05:47:04 PM
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Default Re: Predator Generators

Yes on the rotor. From middle connection of two coils to one end i get .022 ohms and other end from middle nothing. Nothing across rings also. So half is shot. And i was getting like 2.2 vac at outlets running with it all hooked up.

Looking for a used part number# 312444GS as new clearly is 400 bucks. Which I may or may not buy new if I can get the monies worth back out of it selling it.
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  #131  
Old 04-08-2018, 08:21:43 PM
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Default Re: Predator Generators

Bummer... I've probably avoided such problems by usually running a very light load on my Predator gens. Biggest load I've run on my 4ks has been my 2hp compressor, which it doesn't like, but runs. That is only on ocassion. Otherwise I usually run under half rated load (1500 W heater and my usual under 100 W charger and internet load).
Running typical non-heater load I get up to 14 hours run time on a tank of gas. So obviously gen is just loping along.

In your case I'd look for a gen of the same capacity with a bad engine. Maybe inquire for such on Craigslist.
Doc
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  #132  
Old 04-10-2018, 08:35:36 PM
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Default Re: Predator Generators

2 pole rotor and one very long length of wire I believe. Could be rewound if one wants to take number of counts while unwinding the coil. It's a real pita at times and seldom worth the effort.

If I couldn't fix the alternator and needed a generator I would look at finding a 20HP three phase electric motor and run a belt and pulley setup. You would need three 50uf 450v capacitors to excite the motor and would have three outlets at about 140 volts no load. The BIG THING is you need a 9 lead or tri voltage electric motor to be able to get 120 out of the windings set. I have seen motors setup 220/440 three phase that have the correct 9 lead stators.

There is also the possibility of going into a 9 lead and bringing out the other ends of the stator so you have all 12 leads and could then get 120/240 out of a three phase machine by running double delta setup.


No such machine would ever be suitable for resale but can keep the lights on during emergency situations.

Induction Generators don't like electric motor loads very much though. One has to have a large motor about 5HP running as induction generator to start a fridge or freezer. They also suffer from poor regulation since there is no voltage regulation setup. They can run iron 140 no load to 100 volts full load.

Robert
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  #133  
Old 04-10-2018, 09:23:54 PM
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Default Re: Predator Generators

So if I did care to count how many winds one could rewind by hand after replacing with identical gauge and turns? Always thought it needed to be machine done. Wonder what a company would charge to do it. Cheapier tha buying new maybe? Lol and thanks for tip on three phase motors
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  #134  
Old 04-10-2018, 09:42:04 PM
Railroads Railroads is offline
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Default Re: Predator Generators

You would need to look up motor winding shops in your area and either call or take the rotor in and see what they say. You might get lucky and find that one smaller shop that can do it for a little less.

They don't have to be wound by machine if great care is taken in winding them and then good varnish is applied and let setup. The rule is try to match the old winding count and direction of winding and keep the coils consistent with the taught-ness of the wire and try to wind them neatly with each winding side by side.All the supplies for doing a winding job can be bought at a motor winding shop. Although the wire might be cheaper online depending on what gauge you need.

No problem with the motor advice. The trick is there is no good connection scheme published on the web. The connections needed are dead simple though if you understand motors/generators and three phase connections. I am always willing to help with induction generators.

Robert
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  #135  
Old 06-18-2018, 09:43:56 PM
Thaumaturge Thaumaturge is offline
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Default Re: Predator Generators

Just an update on my current Predator 4k.... just passed 3150 hours. Only maintenance has been weekly (~100hrs) oil changes and swapping carb to fix bad choke detent about 2000 hrs ($20 from Amazon). Added drain plug magnets when new and one time treatment of pure molybdenum disulfide on third oil change.

Have new replacement already test run and waiting (because HF was showing symptoms of big price increase on unit... expected after $289 coupon expires at end of June.) But at current behavior I might get another 1000 hours out of it.

Sure beats the POS "Wen" I bought 4 months ago but have yet to get even a full tank run out of without it dying. Think it has an intermittant coil.
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  #136  
Old 06-18-2018, 10:11:45 PM
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Default Re: Predator Generators

I don't know what your skill level is. You are on this sight so you must like to tinker. I would say to you find an onan cck get it cheap and bring it back to life you will find all the info on this sight. It run for many years
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  #137  
Old 06-19-2018, 02:35:09 AM
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Default Re: Predator Generators

It is not a question of skill level, but rather practical operational economics. Quite frankly Onans are NOT the solution for every application. An Onan would devistate my fixed budget. Not from initial investment or ongoing maintenance, but from fuel consumption!

I live completely off grid. Generators are my primary power source, not backup for a public utility. My 4000 (3200) watt Predator just ran about 20 hours on just 4 gallons of fuel. My average run is about 14-16 hours a day on about 2 gallons of fuel.

I own other generators including an old Kohler 4.5 KW and a surplus 6.5 KW diesel MEP. I only occasionally run them to power big loads like table saws or a 2 hp compressor. I don't need an Onan. It wouldn't fit my application.
Doc
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  #138  
Old 06-19-2018, 08:32:36 AM
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Default Re: Predator Generators

Sounds like you should be putting your money towards a slow speed Lister or Witte diesel generator. They will easily run 6+ hours on a gallon of diesel fuel, have twice the output and many many times the longevity. Needlesstosay, you must be very patient if you can coax 3000 hours out of a horrible freight engine

Chris
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  #139  
Old 06-19-2018, 10:42:42 AM
Birken Vogt Birken Vogt is offline
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Default Re: Predator Generators

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thaumaturge View Post
It is not a question of skill level, but rather practical operational economics. Quite frankly Onans are NOT the solution for every application. An Onan would devistate my fixed budget. Not from initial investment or ongoing maintenance, but from fuel consumption!

I live completely off grid. Generators are my primary power source, not backup for a public utility. My 4000 (3200) watt Predator just ran about 20 hours on just 4 gallons of fuel. My average run is about 14-16 hours a day on about 2 gallons of fuel.

I own other generators including an old Kohler 4.5 KW and a surplus 6.5 KW diesel MEP. I only occasionally run them to power big loads like table saws or a 2 hp compressor. I don't need an Onan. It wouldn't fit my application.
Doc
Interesting take. I mostly fix generators for off grid people. I had a predecessor who converted a lot of old 2 cylinder 4-6 kW Onans to propane and set them up for people. They seem to eat a lot of fuel I suspect because they are flat head. Or maybe low compression.

But what I want to know is, in Utah why are you running a generator hardly at all? It would seem that a 20-50 kWh battery bank and a bunch of solar panels and you could leave the generator in the shed except a few weeks in winter. I have a lot of customers with whom generator fuel consumption is not really a factor, they run it so little.
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  #140  
Old 08-13-2018, 06:08:17 PM
Thaumaturge Thaumaturge is offline
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Default Re: Predator Generators

Further update... Predator 4k just passed 4,000 hours measured running time and still going strong.

(Wen is STILL a POS.)
Doc
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