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Machine Shop and Tool Talk

What Lathe Tooling Do I Need


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  #1  
Old 04-22-2019, 08:19:26 PM
SteveK SteveK is offline
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Default What Lathe Tooling Do I Need

There seems to be a myriad of info and designs for what I need so I thought I might ask to avoid learning on my own what does not work. I want a boring bar and the holder for a small lathe. I have an 11 inch logan with a lantern post tool holder. What type of holder and boring bar would work good? I currently use HSS cutters as they are sharp and makes life easier on the lathe. I see lots of boring bars with carbide inserts but I am not sure if I have enough rigidness for that. I need to bore a pulley from .625 to .670. Thanks !
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Old 04-22-2019, 08:52:09 PM
b7100 b7100 is offline
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Default Re: What Lathe tooling do I need

A lot is a matter of personal preference. I use cemented carbide a lot. It's cheap but you need a means of sharpening at a correct angle. High speed steel works in intermittent cuts where cemented carbide will dull real easy. Inserts are handy. I have them for some of my boring bars. Your tool holder will work but the quick changes are handy. Sometimes you just have to take a piece of high speed steel and grind it to a specified profile and maybe silver solder it to something to get the job done. This is from what experience I have had. I'm probably not the most productive machinist but I always seem to accomplish what I set out to do.
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Old 04-22-2019, 09:26:45 PM
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Default Re: What Lathe tooling do I need

Glad you understand the rigidity required for carbide. I have a 9" South Bend that I often refer to as the flexible flyer.

Clicky the link and look at the boring sets etc. from this outfit.
*Order online and avoid calling as his Chinglish is definitely a second language for him. I've bought a lot of stuff from cdco and it's ok. Don't buy the HSS blanks though, they're pathetically poor alloy and dull fast.

http://www.cdcotools.com/

Bite the bullet and get an AXA quick change holder set and your lantern stuff will instantly gather dust. 10X the rigidity over a lantern setup.

Here's a neat cheap thing if you don't want to buy tooling. Mount up a 4 flute end mill to shoot your bore. It's rigid (well as rigid as the tool holder can provide) The angles on the end mill are right and they'll do a good job. You can usually bore to 1.5" deep with them.
Set it at a angle so one tip only contacts the work and you're good to go. Did I say to get an AXA QC set?
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Old 04-22-2019, 10:20:12 PM
Bill Hazzard Bill Hazzard is online now
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Default Re: What Lathe tooling do I need

A lantern tool post is just as rigid as a quick change tool post when used properly and tool changes are just as fast. Use a flat washer under an Armstrong tool holder and set the cutting tool on center, no rocker. When you need to change a tool just remove the tool holder and replace with another tool holder that has the correct tool in in which was set to center previously just like you have to do with a QC tool holder.
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Old 04-22-2019, 11:50:53 PM
dalmatiangirl61 dalmatiangirl61 is offline
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Default Re: What Lathe tooling do I need

You can make your own boring bars, its a good project, or you can purchase a used set on ebay. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4QhD0X3kZs

Holder for the boring bar can be shop made too https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hluRHxvsgGE

Whats the point of having machines and buying every tool

Edit: Bill, I can't believe I never thought of that, the rocker part is such a pia to set on center.

Edit again: If you ever need a boring bar for plastic, phenolic, maybe even aluminum, an allen wrench with a good edge will work in a pinch. I posted a pic here a few years ago of that, don't think anyone noticed what I had done.
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Old 04-23-2019, 08:18:45 AM
Bill Hazzard Bill Hazzard is online now
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Default Re: What Lathe tooling do I need

I didn't come up with the idea, it was in the instructions in an Armstrong brochure. The rocker is meant for hand forged tools where you can't change the height.
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Old 04-23-2019, 08:46:46 AM
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Default Re: What Lathe tooling do I need

A boring bar holder like this can hold bars of any size, don't have to make more than one. Make it with the V center at the spindle center height and the bars will be on center. The old German guy I worked for years ago used this setup.
PT
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Old 04-23-2019, 09:49:46 AM
Pete Spaco Pete Spaco is offline
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Default Re: What Lathe tooling do I need

I don't know if you are going to decide how to go based on votes or not, but here's mine:

I'd go with the AXA QC tool holder set. The individual holders come in several different styles. If money isn't too tight, get the "wedge" style set, otherwise, the "piston" style ain't too bad.

I used that lantern style holder for many years. It always bothered me that, every time you move the rocker (to get the tool's cutting edge on center) you are also slightly changing the angle of attack. I also had a bunch of spacers that I used instead of the rocker, so I could more easily center my tools.

But I finally gave up and bought a "PhaseII" piston type QC set and never looked back. i even made some additonal holders myself so I could mount several tools. Then I found that CDCO site where I could get the holders for just a few bucks each.

Bill, I am glad that you can change tools just as fast with your lantern tool holder. But I won't ever be as fast at it as you are.
I can switch from a facing/turning tool to a boring bar in 30 seconds and I am pretty happy with that.

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Old 04-23-2019, 11:14:08 AM
Ronald E. McClellan Ronald E. McClellan is offline
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Default Re: What Lathe tooling do I need

After trying some suggestions , I finally broke down and bought an Aloris tool holder with attachments. The hole for the boring bar was too big so I had to make the brass adapter to hold my bars. Note the slit in the bar for tightening. It makes it a lot easier. Ron
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Old 04-23-2019, 02:54:38 PM
dalmatiangirl61 dalmatiangirl61 is offline
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Default Re: What Lathe tooling do I need

Pete, correct me if I am wrong, but aren't all the AXA/BXA/Aloris style tool holders designed for carbide inserts? I've heard mention of some HSS inserts, but still your stuck buying inserts vs re-sharpening/re-forming your tools.

On the Atlas lathe I've used one of the 4 sided turrets with HSS for years, as with OP's lathe it has neither the rigidity or speed for carbide. And the 4 sided turret is a step up from the rocker style.

I'll try to get a pic of my diy boring bar holder this evening.
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Old 04-23-2019, 04:25:24 PM
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Default Re: What Lathe tooling do I need

The QC holders will hold any tool, steel or carbide. For small lathes the AXA size will hold up to a 1/2" square bit. The B and C sizes are larger. Some of the tool holders as shown can be had with a groove in the bottom for locating round tools.
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Old 04-23-2019, 06:16:07 PM
SteveK SteveK is offline
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Default Re: What Lathe tooling do I need

Wow! thanks for the replies.
I will post pics when I put something together
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Old 04-23-2019, 10:14:39 PM
dalmatiangirl61 dalmatiangirl61 is offline
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Default Re: What Lathe tooling do I need

Pics of the boring bar holder I made for the Atlas lathe 20 something years ago. I still remember what I made it out of, it was the end of one of the bars from a scissor lift, bore is 1", and there are a few adaptors for other sizes. Never finished the adapter set, the new owner gets that job. The Atlas is still in my shop, friend that rents shop purchased it last year, and gets free instruction for life, well, rest of my life
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Old 04-24-2019, 08:12:12 AM
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Default Re: What Lathe tooling do I need

That's a pretty stout looking mount DG.
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Old 04-24-2019, 10:03:09 AM
Pete Spaco Pete Spaco is offline
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Default Re: What Lathe tooling do I need

Re: Ron, and "hole for the boring bar too large" ---
Take a look at the second picture that Ilikeoldstuff posted.
See the holders with the slot in the side. Yes, they are usually used for square tool bits, but they can also hold boring bars up to the size listed for square tools. In fact, I think one of them that I bought somewhere came with a separate spacer with a vee groove to help support round boring bars.

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Old 04-24-2019, 10:59:28 AM
Ronald E. McClellan Ronald E. McClellan is offline
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Default Re: What Lathe tooling do I need

Hey Pete you got my interest up! When I bought my lathe about 20 years ago , I started buying tooling and have a couple of draws full. When I bought the boring bars , I needed something to hold them , so I bought the Aloris and haven't looked at the other stuff for a long time. I pulled the other stuff out and found some really interesting holders. Two holders with a groove to hold a round bar , another with the bar squared off. Then the two that go into the tool post. The last a large round to hold very small bar. I also have 6 bars that don't fit my holders. I forgot that I even had these. Ron
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Old 05-01-2019, 08:27:36 AM
Peter Holmander Peter Holmander is offline
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Default Re: What Lathe tooling do I need

Steve: Make yourself a test bar like the one in this video for checking tailstock alignment.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEysFBjGkyE

Easy to make, cheap, and works great. I really like tubalcain's machine shop videos.

I had machine shop training in high school and worked for 1 year in the trade but standing in front of a lathe 8 hrs. a day was not for me.

I am retired now and consider myself a hobby machinist.
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Old 05-01-2019, 05:25:25 PM
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Photo Re: What Lathe tooling do I need

Something to keep in mind.

Carbide Inserts Generally Have a Radius on the Cutting Tip. . . Some Big, Some Small. . . and while the bigger Radius Will Give a Smoother Finish, it also takes More Power and Rigidity to Push it Along, and you need to keep the tip 'buried' in the material for the 'chip breaker' to work properly, meaning .030 depth of cut for a .030 radius tip.

If you have a "Questionable" Lathe that lacks the Speed & Power then try to get the Smallest Radius possible to work at lighter feeds & depth of cut. The smallest radius tools we had at work were I believe .007 where the average was .030 or 1/32nd and some were 1/64th or .015 Radius. Then too were the Full-Radius Round inserts which take a LOT of power even though they don't get buried as deep in the cut.

Brazed Carbide Tipped Turning Tools (and Boring Bars) generally have No Radius (other than a light corner break if you hone them a little) and work more like your standard HSS Tools taking lighter cuts and working better in the "Hobby Shop" with smaller lathes and will work with the old style Lantern Tool Post Or the Turret Style Or the Quick Change Holders.

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Old 05-02-2019, 01:31:41 AM
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Default Re: What Lathe tooling do I need

On my lathe, a Chinese one and my first, I am running these carbide tips that are replaceable by using a hex head grub screw. Most of the tips I have are either a 60' or a 55' tip and these are the sizes just right for cutting threads. My parting off tool is an almost squared off end and is 1mm wide. At the moment I do have issues with parting off but I am convinced it is the operator not equipment. By this I mean that I am still adjusting the height of the tool to an optimal height.
The only other difference for mine is that they are a 12mm and not 16mm tool holders like in the images.
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Old 05-02-2019, 08:57:00 PM
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Default Re: What Lathe tooling do I need

One problem with parting tools if they are hand ground is a cutting angle that is too steep. This will cause it to dig in. The front downward angle should be only 5-7 degrees. Can't tell you how many times I've ground it wrong and it would jam up.

The other problem especially on small machines is having the tool sticking out too far. Adjust it as short as possible to suit your diameter. Small machines flex a lot and rigidity is key. On my 9inch lathe if I'm parting something from 50-75mm I'll cut about 10mm then move the blade out another 10.. and so on until it's done. Leaving the blade out far enough to do the whole thing gives too much flex or chatter.

I'll assume your tool holder is rigid as IIRC you have the wedge type quick change. Lube. Lots of non stop lube as you cut. You may have to cut with as slow an rpm as you have. We're not in a hurry with these small machines.

Here's something to check.
Assuming a blade type parting tool, let's say it's 3mm wide at the top, and 2mm wide at the bottom. Putting it in a holder will cause the blade to be cocked as a flat surface is against the holder. Measure yours and get it to stand up straight by putting a shim across the blade bottom side against the holder. If it's 3 and 2, a shim of .5mm will get it straight. Then the sides won't be slamming against the work when you cut.

Did I mention use lots of lube?

Last edited by I like oldstuff; 05-02-2019 at 09:20:04 PM.
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