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I brazed some broken ears on an exhaust manifold


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  #1  
Old 04-22-2014, 07:17:49 AM
sdowney717 sdowney717 is offline
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Default I brazed some broken ears on an exhaust manifold

On an Onan gen, the bolt hole ears were cracked.
I succesfully repaired them.
This is a water cooled MCCK 6500 2 cylinder generator in my boat from 1971.

Then I thought to flow-coat braze on the rusty cast iron where it gets too hot and paints burn off.

So I filed off the rust, some rust left behind in pits.
Using the white flux coated rod, it was impossible to get the braze to flow smoothly, it beads up, sticks in spots, etc...
I am just wasting expensive gas.

Is this due to small amount of remaining rust?

I have abandoned the idea.
I will just get some ultra high temp permatek orange gasket maker and smear it on to keep it from rusting.
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Old 04-22-2014, 04:11:36 PM
Langes Machine Shop Langes Machine Shop is offline
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Default Re: I brazed some broken ears on an exhaust manifold

Don't use bronze, it does not like the heat or the exhuast. It will brake again, if it is cast you should have it welded with cast iron.
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  #3  
Old 04-22-2014, 08:36:30 PM
sdowney717 sdowney717 is offline
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Default Re: I brazed some broken ears on an exhaust manifold

I dont think it gets hot enough to do that. The other ear that broke a few years ago I brazed back on and it holds. The manifold is FWC on a boat. A short section of about 1.5 inch does not have coolant passage and that is where it attaches to the intake manifold. The intake manifold attaches to the block and has both exhaust and intake ports built in. This ear snapped off because the old gasket I used had partially disintegrated, so the ear had less support than the center.

I plan to use the high temp permatek orange and no gasket. Will see how it holds up.
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Old 04-23-2014, 04:46:03 AM
pjjms pjjms is offline
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Default Re: I brazed some broken ears on an exhaust manifold

I brazed some back on my tractor manifold a few years ago and it has lasted well. Used coated rods made for cast iron (they are pink), got it clean with a grinder, then a file. Worked well. If it's pooling up and not sticking it sounds like the manifold is not hot enough, and yes, all the rust will need to go.
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Old 04-23-2014, 03:54:36 PM
sdowney717 sdowney717 is offline
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Default Re: I brazed some broken ears on an exhaust manifold

ok some pics of what I brazed together.
Intake manifold bolts to block, exhaust bolts to intake.

I plan to get the orange super high heat silicon gasket maker and coat the casting where the paint burns off. I have used that as a gasket on exhaust flanges on cars right at the block and on pipe flanges and it holds up ok.
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Old 04-23-2014, 03:57:18 PM
sdowney717 sdowney717 is offline
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Default Re: I brazed some broken ears on an exhaust manifold

exhaust flange face.
Normally a gasket goes between this and the intake.

I made sure the bolts have clearance enough so when it heats up it has room to move around.
The parts are also sitting flat onto each other which is important.
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Old 04-23-2014, 04:04:25 PM
Roland Hayes Roland Hayes is offline
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Default Re: I brazed some broken ears on an exhaust manifold

Silver solder works very well on cast iron, it flows very well on the metal and you can coat a surface with it. The heat required to get good flow is much less than brazing so there is less risk of cracking and other heat related issues.
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Old 04-23-2014, 04:07:44 PM
sdowney717 sdowney717 is offline
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Default Re: I brazed some broken ears on an exhaust manifold

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roland Hayes View Post
Silver solder works very well on cast iron, it flows very well on the metal and you can coat a surface with it. The heat required to get good flow is much less than brazing so there is less risk of cracking and other heat related issues.
All that is good. Except the price is out of sight expensive for silver rods.
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Old 04-23-2014, 04:48:41 PM
Roland Hayes Roland Hayes is offline
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Default Re: I brazed some broken ears on an exhaust manifold

Yeah, tell me about it, when I was a teenager I cut the integrally cast inlet manifold off my BSA A10 so I could get to the inlet ports to open them up for more power, it was my intention to braze the manifold back on after the port job, but when I tried to braze the cast iron back together the brass spelter just would not flow, just balling up and running off. Looking around in my fathers workshop I came across some flat silver colored welding rods which I tried and was glad to find that they made a perfect job of re-attaching the manifold. They were very economical with the rod too needing only a couple of inches of rod to do the whole job, the flux was the same as for the brazing and called Easy Flo. My Dad cussed me out after for using his valuable silver solder stock.
I had that bike for years and it always vibrated like the devil but the manifold stayed in place no problem, the port job was a revelation by the way with tons more go in the engine. Since then I have found that Eutectic make some very good stick arc welding rods for cast iron, the way we did it was to attach a stick holder to the TIG welder and use the Eutectic cast iron stick rods with the TIG set on DC and with the HF switched on to bring the arc in smoothly, did some very tidy work like that and strong welds. Thing is that those Eutectic cast iron rods cost a fortune to buy, nearly as expensive as silver solder!
What price is reasonable for a really good welding job?
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  #10  
Old 04-23-2014, 05:07:35 PM
sdowney717 sdowney717 is offline
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Default Re: I brazed some broken ears on an exhaust manifold

Well for me, I do it all myself because I refuse to pay someone to do whatever it might be if I have a good chance of success.

If I fail, I learn and try again till I succeed.
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Old 04-23-2014, 05:19:57 PM
Roland Hayes Roland Hayes is offline
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Default Re: I brazed some broken ears on an exhaust manifold

Quote:
Originally Posted by sdowney717 View Post

If I fail, I learn and try again till I succeed.
Me too,

do you have a TIG welder?
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Old 04-23-2014, 06:12:47 PM
sdowney717 sdowney717 is offline
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Default Re: I brazed some broken ears on an exhaust manifold

no.
I have this oxy torch and I have an old Craftsman AC arc welder, 240 vac.
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Old 04-27-2014, 08:02:25 AM
sdowney717 sdowney717 is offline
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Default Re: I brazed some broken ears on an exhaust manifold

It is together and runs good. No leaking from the exhaust using just the copper hi temp gasket maker. Long term is a more useful indication of it holding up.

IMO, the gaskets is what makes the ears cracked, because those gaskets I dont have new ones and maybe hard to get and I just always reused them. But the bolt will put more pressure on that part of the gasket than the center and cast is brittle.

I smeared that orange permatex all over the high heat areas and also spray painted blue on top.

In a few months of use, update with pictures and how it is working out I will do.
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Old 05-30-2014, 09:50:14 AM
sdowney717 sdowney717 is offline
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Default Re: I brazed some broken ears on an exhaust manifold

Still works good. I have about 20 hours run time on it.
Using the orange high heat permatex is successful on the exhaust manifold with no gasket.

Some of the permatex on the side bubbled where smeared on the outside, but still attached. I think the heat expands any entrapped air like a balloon.
the blue paint on top of the silicon turns much darker as a slow burn in process. Slightly peeled off showing the orange silicon gasket unharmed underneath.
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