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Fuels and Alternative Fuels Materials or substances that can be used as a fuel, waste oils, vegetable oils or animal fats, which can be used alone, or blended with fossil fuels.

Fuels and Alternative Fuels

Hydrogen Fuel


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  #1  
Old 08-20-2008, 09:25:37 AM
Stephen Girouard Stephen Girouard is offline
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Default Hydrogen Fuel

all bull aside, anyone did this mason jar trick you can order the plans for & with what success? I'm not interested in theoretical bullshit . I'v worked with high pressure equipment & know about hydrogen gas use and its out of my relm to build ,store and use this at home in a large scale,i'v talked to afew oilfield engineers it was out of there relm also ,thats why were not drivin around in hydrogen cars. Lets keep this simple and real. I'm just askin before i waist alot of mason jars i could be usein to drink ethanol in.
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  #2  
Old 08-20-2008, 10:26:36 AM
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PaulGray PaulGray is offline
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Cool Re: hydrogen fuel

Use the mason jar for sipping iced tea or storing loose change and don't waste your time. The amount of so-called brown gas (or vaporized BS) is minuscule compared to what would affect engine performance.
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  #3  
Old 08-20-2008, 01:43:05 PM
Bruce Sutton Bruce Sutton is offline
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Smile Re: hydrogen fuel

I have a Dodge truck,318 engine, getting around 17mpg. Put on the Mason jar with the element inside hooked to hot side of switch. Distilled water and a pinch of baking soda in jar. Hydrogen line going to air intake on clean side of air filter, just before throttle body injector. A reostat type knob hooked into map sensor to trick computer. Another line hooked to vaccum on manifold and into hydrogen line. O2 sensors were insulated, not sure why. You could turn the knob and could tell it was making engine lean or the other way rich.I checked mileage every 200mi. Turned the knob every way you could. Mileage went all the way to 15mpg. Want to buy this setup cheap? Bruce
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Old 08-20-2008, 08:15:36 PM
Stephen Girouard Stephen Girouard is offline
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Default Re: hydrogen fuel

dam bruce that sucks,hope you get your truck right again
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  #5  
Old 08-20-2008, 09:30:47 PM
Bruce Sutton Bruce Sutton is offline
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Default Re: hydrogen fuel

Quote:
dam bruce that sucks,hope you get your truck right again
Took all the stuff off. runs good now.
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  #6  
Old 08-21-2008, 10:31:45 AM
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Elden DuRand Elden DuRand is offline
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Default Re: hydrogen fuel

Gang:

If someone tells you that you can add a simple (or complex) gizmo to your fuel system and get great mileage, RUN - DON'T WALK!

Hydrogen may be a nice clean burning fuel but it's very expensive to extract from water (or anything else, for that matter).

You'd probably be better off collecting cow farts for your car.

Take care - Elden
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Old 08-21-2008, 12:46:45 PM
Brad Kelley Brad Kelley is offline
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Default Re: Hydrogen fuel

When I was at Virginia Tech the Hybrid Electric Vehicle Team (HEVT) had a hydrogen powered Ford Explorer. I was working in the shop one day when one of the HEVT engineers came into the Baja car bay with the oil pan from their engine. He asked us if we could identify that milky substance in the oil pan. I told him it looked just like the exhaust out of a steam engine... oil and WATER. He slapped his forehead, because the byproduct of combusting hydrogen is H2O.

So, even if you get this mason jar contraption to work, you'd better add a water separator to your engine oil system.
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Old 08-21-2008, 09:47:00 PM
Stephen Girouard Stephen Girouard is offline
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Default Re: Hydrogen fuel

fogot about that! there's always a little blowby, that byproduct of regular combustion will wash a regular engine like a head gasket leak suckin in water, hell , what a bunch of CRAP ,best one yet
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Old 08-24-2008, 12:16:22 AM
Richard W. Richard W. is offline
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Default Re: Hydrogen fuel

There are several videos on youtube about the HHO generator blowing up with out a flash back arrester.

Richard W.
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Old 02-10-2009, 02:17:19 PM
Dave Kane Dave Kane is offline
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Default Re: Hydrogen fuel

Well-sounds pretty negative.Belong to a group of 6 trying new things all the time.Have not found a solution that will withstand Michigan weather.Do some research on web & find people in your area using this.Numerous safegaurds to ad,but,old 78 ford-slightly built 460-8 miles a gallon.Added simple hyd-fuel cell,14 miles a gallon.I'm not very educated but this seems to be quit an improvement to me.Working on tricking sensors next.Guess we have long way to go,but a Saab-32 miles a gallon now at 43 miles a gallon.Guess I'l just keep to myself.Mason jar will not support surface area of electrolite but people say they work. Good luck
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  #11  
Old 02-11-2009, 03:00:20 AM
Farquhar Farquhar is offline
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Default Re: Hydrogen fuel

These rigs will work purty good on older engines without the oxygen sensors, etc. I wouldn't want to try it without a check valve/flacshback valve to prevent a backfire from setting off Hiroshima under the hood.
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  #12  
Old 11-19-2009, 05:53:48 PM
Andrew Mackey Andrew Mackey is offline
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Exclamation Re: Hydrogen fuel

Take the ford carb off the 460 and put on a Rochester Quadrajet. You will get 14 to 15 MPG without the gimmicks! A friend has a ford SCJ 429. He was getting 10 MPG with a Holley 650 on it. Changed it out to a Rochester and then got 16 MPG. Didn't take off quite so fast, but when the secondaries opened, watch out!

Andrew
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  #13  
Old 11-19-2009, 08:10:19 PM
jht1057 jht1057 is offline
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Default Re: Hydrogen Fuel

Hi All,

Just my .02 cents, I have a generator left over from Y2K, guy was getting rid of it because it had carb issues. Anyhow, I have managed to get it to run reasonably with a five gallon bucket sized HHO generator. The cost of the stainless plates and all the other hardware would have been a serious project stopper, had I not found most of it in various scrap piles.

I am not convinced that it would be a good idea to try any of this on a vehicle, but on something stationary, I had fun getting it to work. However, I also am not planning any further uses and probably won't go through the hassle to set it up again.

The theory and ideas have merit the costs and safety issues are pretty prohibitive.

Again, just my .02 cents

Jim
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  #14  
Old 11-20-2009, 11:18:48 AM
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Elden DuRand Elden DuRand is offline
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Default Re: Hydrogen Fuel

Jim:

If you want to do a neat experiment, get an old watt hour meter and hook it to the AC input to your hydrogen generator.

Now, figure out a way to measure the actual amount of work the engine can do on the hydrogen, generating electricity, for instance.

Run the hydrogen generator hard enough to just run the engine/generator lighting a string of light bulbs or other resistive load. Measure the load voltage and current and calculate the watts generated.

Run the outfit an hour with the hydrogen generator and note the KWH used to generate the hydrogen.

NOW, switch the engine back to gasoline (or whatever fuel it was originally running) on and repeat the experiment as exactly as you can and carefully measure the amount of fuel used.

Figure the electrical cost of running the generator on hydrogen and compare that with the cost of running the generator on conventional fuel.

I'll bet (and I ain't a bettin' man) that the cost of the hydrogen was much higher than that of the conventional fuel.

Same thing with using one of those toy generators on your car. The engine will waste many more times fuel generating the hydrogen than the hydrogen generator makes.

End of lesson.

Remember the three rules of Thermodynamics:
1: You can't win.
2: You can't break-even.
3: You can't lose.

Take care - Elden
http://www.oldengine.org/members/durand
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  #15  
Old 11-20-2009, 03:03:36 PM
jht1057 jht1057 is offline
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Default Re: Hydrogen Fuel

Elden,

Trust me I am fully aware of what you are saying and totally agree, as I had stated in my previous reply, I was just playing with the concept to see if there was enough brown gas output to actually run something on.

I had no preconceived ideas of saving huge amounts of money or even saving the world.

My project was what it was, a project.

Although watching the bubbles was the best part.

Jim
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  #16  
Old 11-20-2009, 04:07:58 PM
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OTTO-Sawyer OTTO-Sawyer is offline
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Default Re: Hydrogen fuel

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Mackey View Post
Take the ford carb off the 460 and put on a Rochester Quadrajet. Andrew
Best Damn Carburator Ever Made.

That's why GM hung onto it as long as they did, well into the fuel injection age until they finaly got enough computer power hooked up to make them more efficient.

And contrary to popular belief, they're not that hard to work on or modify. With the vaccuum operated air valve (secondary choke?), it's impossible to Over-carburate, as it will only open as much as is needed for the engine size and RPM. Spend $300.00+ on a Holly and then spend another $200-$300.00 to make it match your motor.... No Thanks, I'll take a $2.00 junk yard Quadrajet any day. Throw in a $20.00 rebuild kit, and it will handle just about any engine you mount it on ! (Except a diesel of course !)
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  #17  
Old 11-26-2009, 11:38:59 PM
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Default Re: Hydrogen Fuel

I have to agree with the Rochester Quadrajet carb as being a good carb.I used to run one on my 68 Chevelle and I took it to the drag strip all the time.I tried several Hollies but always went back to to the Quad. I remember once in the early 70's I got talked into putting a fuel vaporizer ( Carb base gasket with fine mesh screen in the primary holes ) to increase my fuel milage. Neeless to say it never helped a bit, however that winter my engine would die after driving about one block.It would start right back up and run for another block and die again.If you put it to the floor and the secondarys opened it would fly,but that wasn't any fun on snow or ice. I finally figured out that ice was forming from the moisture in the air on the vaporizer screens and blocking them shut.as soon as the engine died the heat from the engine melted the ice and it would return to normal. I've never believed in fuel saver systems since.
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  #18  
Old 11-27-2009, 07:35:10 AM
J.B. Castagnos J.B. Castagnos is offline
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Default Re: Hydrogen Fuel

People come into my shop and ask about these things, the Tornado comes to mind. I tell them the automotive engineers have TVs, they see the commercials, if they could increase their cars by 3 miles to the gallon for $30 they would come from the factory with them. It doesn't make any difference what I tell them, next time it's serviced there's one in the air duct.
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  #19  
Old 11-27-2009, 02:32:37 PM
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Talking Re: Hydrogen Fuel

When my brother, (The Engineer) was in Graduate School, one of his projects, was to take Ten (10) of the leading afterMarket Gadgets for Improving Mileage and install them on the schools Dyno Test Engine, and see exactly what they did, and document exactly what, if anything, happened, during the test runs of 500 miles. After almost 6 months of taking Data, His Conclusion was: "NONE of them functioned as ADVERTISED. Most actually made the engine less efficient, and cost MPG, and a few were so bad that they wouldn't even make the 500 miles before causing the engine to Stop Running. The paper he wrote was published, and Peer Reviewed, in some Journal, somewhere, but I don't remember where, just now. He proved the Old Adage, "A Fool, and his Money, are soon Parted", and "There is a Sucker, Born every Minute".....
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Bruce in alaska
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Old 11-27-2009, 08:59:49 PM
Mike Miller Mike Miller is offline
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Default Re: Hydrogen Fuel

Hydrogen as a fuel in an internal combustion engine does not make sense. When gasoline and oxygen burn you get hot gasses that expand and put pressure on the pistons. When Hydrogen and oxygen are in a test tube and you ingite them they produce a very small quantity of water. So where is the heat and expansion that raises pressure to push against the pistons? I would have to see some really smart folks explain this before I ever spent 2 cents on it.
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