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Vintage Diesel and Oil Engines Fairbanks Morse, Lister, Petter, Witte and other pump injected Diesel oil engines.

Vintage Diesel and Oil Engines

John Deere 4219DF


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  #1  
Old 09-21-2018, 10:42:44 AM
Addem Addem is offline
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Default John Deere 4219DF

Hello. I'm back with drama.

Engine (6k hrs) drives a 185cfm air compressor. It has smoked from the crank case vent regularly-- not too bad, I don't think, but enough to get my attention (if that means anything). I always use ether to start it-- too much ether.

Went out to it while it was running (some months ago) and discovered that the oil pressure had dropped to about 30 psi after running at high rpm for 1/2 hr or so.

I continued to run it lightly, which got me by until the other day.

While running, it stopped. Nothing peculiar came out of the air line.

I tried to restart it.

It cranked nicely.

It seemed to start while the starter running, but it chugged a bit, maybe a cylinder missing, but it sounded as if it was running, and smoke was coming out of the exhaust. I released the starter. It died immediately (which may have been from releasing the low oil shut off override button).

I re-engaged the starter. I heard a solenoid click and a "knock" of effort from the starter.

Days later:

Because the crank pulley is difficult to reach (and I wanted to test the starter), I pulled the starter. (Starter still ran.) I used a screwdriver to rotate the flywheel (through a hole). Flywheel was seized in one direction but rotated about 20 degrees in the opposite. I can move it through those 20 degrees fairly easily, but I didn't want to force it, so I stopped there.


Here's what I suspect:

An oil pressure drop activated the safety, so the machine stopped. When I tried to restart it, it locked.

Sound right?
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  #2  
Old 09-21-2018, 02:05:59 PM
cornbinder89 cornbinder89 is offline
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Default Re: John Deere 4219DF

Spun lower Con rod bearing, pushing the piston higher in the bore and it hits the head or ridge in bore.
OR something got into the cyl (injector tip, even carbon) that is preventing 360 rotation.
Time to pull the head and pan and find out what is wrong.
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  #3  
Old 09-21-2018, 02:52:30 PM
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Default Re: John Deere 4219DF

Quote:
Originally Posted by cornbinder89 View Post
Spun lower Con rod bearing, pushing the piston higher in the bore and it hits the head or ridge in bore.
OR something got into the cyl (injector tip, even carbon) that is preventing 360 rotation.
Time to pull the head and pan and find out what is wrong.
Cool. Thanks. I was reading the other threads and wanted some guidance before I start taking it apart.

What's the odds that it'll last another 10hrs with a new bearing (assuming that that's the issue)?

If it's in the top end, can I reassemble with the same gasket (to get about 10 more hours out of it)?
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Old 09-23-2018, 06:00:11 AM
Oil Power Oil Power is offline
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Default Re: John Deere 4219DF

If the crankshaft can only be moved 20 degrees I would look for something like the oil pump having locked up. An obstruction on top of a piston should allow the crank to be moved 90 degrees back and forth.
Hugh
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Old 09-23-2018, 11:19:48 AM
ronm ronm is offline
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Default Re: John Deere 4219DF

Quote:
Originally Posted by Addem View Post
Cool. Thanks. I was reading the other threads and wanted some guidance before I start taking it apart.

What's the odds that it'll last another 10hrs with a new bearing (assuming that that's the issue)?
If you want to get 10 more MINUTES out of it before it punches a rod through the side of the block, go ahead & try that...if it has spun a rod bearing, the rod bore & crank journal are already scored & rough. A new bearing won't last any time at all, & the second failure is always worse than the first.
20 degrees of rotation doesn't really sound like a spun rod bearing, but you're looking at a teardown to find out what it is in any case. Don't push your luck, find out what's wrong while you still hopefully have something to work with.
a half-assed fix will come back & bite you in the ass...guaranteed...

The 219 was used in a bunch of applications, tractors, swathers, sprayers, compressors, gensets, etc. You may be ahead to look for a running engine at a salvage yard.
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Old 09-23-2018, 11:27:28 AM
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Default Re: John Deere 4219DF

Good info. Thank you all. I'll drop the pan to see what I've got this week. Maybe get to the head too.

Will update.
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Old 09-23-2018, 01:46:41 PM
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Default Re: John Deere 4219DF

Don't know how much smoke and what color the exhaust was making, but it does sound like mechanical interference inside. Any possibility you blew the end off and injector? that would give you lots of white smoke and a pretty wet ex pipe. Somewhat limited details, but sounds like you pretty much gotta pull it down for inspection.

If all you getting is 20 deg rotation with a hard stop on each end expect busted internal hard parts. Let us know what you find.
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Old 09-23-2018, 03:03:21 PM
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Default Re: John Deere 4219DF

It was within my field of vision when it first stalled, so I looked at it as soon as it stopped running. No smoke from it then. When I restarted it a few minutes later, the smoke out the exhaust was typical of starting for this machine. Nothing white.

However, there was a "miss" that I mentioned. It was exhausting a black puff with that miss.

This is what seems peculiar to me: when I was restarting it, and it was running, it stopped when I released the starter switch (and the oil pressure override).

So, I can see bending something with the power of a cylinder firing while I was starting it. However, once that part is damaged, why wouldn't the starter be able to push past that?

Hmm. I'll definitely update.
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Old 09-27-2018, 11:26:02 PM
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Default Re: John Deere 4219DF

Had a little time with it today. Pulled valve cover and oil pan. I didn't notice anything out of the ordinary. Unbolted (but didn't remove) oil pump. The gears moved easily and looked good. (Which certainly doesn't eliminate if something is above the drive gear. I don't know what the turn ratios are, but I could see something on that gear causing this.)
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