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Selling our Heritiage...should we or shouldn't we?


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  #1  
Old 11-08-2007, 11:09:42 AM
GaarScott GaarScott is offline
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Default Selling our Heritiage...should we or shouldn't we?

Fellow Stacker's,

Not to start a heated debate (probably will though)...but I would like to hear folk's thoughts on this in a civil manner. With the recent departure of my good friend Rev. Jim Jake...and the possibilities of others, I have been mulling around in my head what was the core basis of all of this recent "heated debate". From what I can gather, it stems around whether we, as custodians of our heritage (historical equipment, mainly!) should be selling it off to the highest bidders (typically our European friends). I can see the point to the argument. On the flip side of the coin, we don't seem to have a problem with selling it to our Canadian friends...or going up to Canada and buying their heritage and bringing it home as our own. Now some may argue that the difference would be 1.) the equipment, although sold up in Canada, did come from the U.S. 2.) that even though the equipment may change hands for a short time...it does have the ability of being easily brought back...should it sell again. But with the iron crossing the big pond...well that becomes even more difficult to get it back.

I am wondering what others thoughts are on this topic. Once again, I implore you not to use verbal abuse towards any one person or group of folks. I just want your thoughts on if we are doing right by our ancestors...and those that will follow after us. However, a good friend did point out to me recently...once it is gone...it is gone! He was referring to items being sold over seas, as I stated above, it is considerably harder to bring it back after it leaves.

I look forward to reading everyone's thoughts.

Lawrence
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Old 11-08-2007, 11:54:20 AM
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Default Re: Selling our Heritiage...should we or shouldn't we???

I think it comes down to a simple point: are we selling because we want to, or because we have to?

A person who sells an item because he wants to is more likely to have some conditions as a part of the sale. One is generally where the item will be going. I know of numerous instances where a family sold an item to a person who promised to keep it in the immediate area. A person who fits this description would also be likely to price his item at a fair or below market price to see it in the hands of a friend or someone who would appreciate it.

A person who must sell an item because of health reasons, financial difficulties, etc., would be expected to sell to the highest bidder, regardless of the geographical location. I can't blame anyone who does this when faced with this situation.

At the end of the day the only people who have to be satisfied is the seller and the buyer. Those of us who look on from the sidelines will just have to accept who the buyer is and where he lives.

David
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Old 11-08-2007, 12:19:58 PM
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Default Re: Selling our Heritiage...should we or shouldn't we???

David,

I agree with a good portion of your post...however, don't we have an obligation, as the caretakers of this ol' iron for the brief moment in time that it is ours, to do right by those that we either purchased it from or inhereted it from to make sure that the long lineage attached with the item stays in tact. By selling it over seas, which historically falls under the catagory of "highest bidder", are we doing right by those that preceed us...and follow us? To what historic significance does that iron hold for the new owner and his continental location? Do we not have to hold ourselves to a higher standard, instead of looking for the all American dollar!

As for your other point...I surely can understand and emphathize with selling a historic piece off due to personal financial difficulities...and I think many of us do. But, I would say that this is a small fraction of the overall sales that take place outside of the U.S. borders...are we selling to merely fill our pocket book today instead of keeping our historically valued items within the boundries of the U.S.

Just tossing it out there again.
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Old 11-08-2007, 12:26:25 PM
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Default Re: Selling our Heritiage...should we or shouldn't we???

Lawrence,
I don't have a remedy. I'd say the very pinacle of my steam "career" had been at the helm of my old late steam buddy, Austin Monk's 40hp Peerless... Naturally pulling the 20-bottom plow. Austin was in his later 70s when I started doing much of the heavy work on that great pulling engine. By the time he was pushing 90, many Montanans had long wondered what would be the outcome of this engine, so near and dear to my heart. I believe it was the year before he hauled it back to his ranch west of Kalispell, but I sat in on a conversation with Austin and Dale Richardson of Orofino, ID. Dale often attended the Belgrade show and he was "dickering" with Austin to buy that engine, build a shed at that showground and leave it there. Austin liked that idea and offered it to Dale for $15,000 less than he ended up eventually selling it to our friend Willis Abel for. Dale needed to dispose of some real estate before he could make it a reality. The next year Austin moved it home and about two or three years later, Austin sold it to Willis. There were Montanans grumblin all over the place. "We should have formed a corporation and bought it..." "Why do the wealthy end up with all of our big engines...?" While it wrenched my guts to have that engine leave Montana (as so many big old engines have), it stayed in our country and I could go see it and knowing Willis like I do, he'd have made sure I got to run it. Now that it lives at Carthage, NC, I could still visit it. There is a possibility I could put a bug in the right ears and even get to pull the throttle on it again.

I'd known Austin's only son, who preceeded him in passing. Austin only had one daughter at the time of his demise. I was always kind of amazed that one of his two grandsons didn't end up with that engine, but Austin always liked to have his financial house in order. That is the reason you got to pull the throttle on Reeves 32 cc US #5889 at Carthage last year, Lawrence. I'd begged the widow who owned this Reeves to sell me the engine. She used me to arrive at a price she would sell the engine to Austin for. Austin bought it and had it moved to his ranch. Within two weeks, Austin discovered he had cancer and headed to Seattle for medical treatment. Knowing Austin, I would imagine he only had Medicare and felt he needed cash for his care and for Mildred's lodging and food while there? He promptly called Willis and sold him that engine. I don't think it set at Austin's ranch for a month? I don't need to repeat what Willis did with many of his engines. I don't believe any of his went across the pond, however?

I'm not curing anything, just rambling. I guess I would try to help people I knew to get into my engine, should that scenario ever arise? I'm hoping it just stays in Mike's shed at Silver Creek. I know Carl Mehmke traded with me and sold Randy & Mike that Reeves, just so it would stay "in the neighborhood." If I were dying of cancer without healthcare insurance, would I place my engine on eBay for top buck? I don't know. I really don't want to ever do that, but I've been blessed enough to not have to do that. I"m not criticizing anyone who has had to do that.

How many old engines, tractors and cars have I "kicked the tires" on in the last 55 years? I don't know. I do know I've kicked a few that weren't for sale, would NEVER be for sale, but when he passed away, the kids hadn't made that committment (to never sell). SOME of them had the auction happen and parted with everything that was near and dear to "Paw", so they could get the down payment on the new house, car, pickup, snowmobile, four wheeler and boat. SOME of them kept them in honor of Paw and some just cherry picked a few items to help with their debts. Like I said, I've never been there, but many of us can be there in a heartbeat.

Lawrence, I apologize for not solving one thing with my rambling, but it is a good thing to talk about, I think, personally. Oh, yeah, I put a picture of the Reeves you ran, when it set about a mile and a half from where I'm clicking the keys on this computer.
Gary
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Old 11-08-2007, 12:49:00 PM
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Default Re: Selling our Heritiage...should we or shouldn't we???

We should not sell of our heritage if we can get around it. It is legal to do so but legal doesn't necessarily = right. There are many things that I can legally do that are wrong. So before we call for laws to prevent historic items I will submit that you cannot legislate right and wrong. It has been tried many times and failed many times. Like most Americans, I have a big problem with someone else telling me what I can and can't do with my own property. Our fierce independance is the reason that we have all of this neat old stuff in the first place. Its up to us to encourage the keepers of our history to keep it ours anstead of shipping it off to a distant land. Its up to us to provide the seller with alternatives to shipping the item overseas. This is not the time to say I can't. If it is important enough we find a way to get it done.
Now I'm going to contradict my original statement. Is it so bad that people from other places want examples of our fine engineering? I'm kinda glad that there are American traction engines in Europe. This gives europeans the opportunity to see how we got things done in America. Just as it is unlikely that many of us will get to go to Europe to see their historic equipment it is also unlikely that many of them will get to come here. Americans have always imported historic pieces from around the world. Have we deprived those places of their heritage? Are we advocating a double standard? I do not have strong feelings on either side of this subject. There are valid arguments for both positions. I do not think that the issue is more complex than dollars and cents though.
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Old 11-08-2007, 12:51:23 PM
Jeff Smith Jeff Smith is offline
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Default Re: Selling our Heritiage...should we or shouldn't we???

Lawrence,

A few years ago before there was not a real trend like there is today on shipping iron overseas, I needed to find a new home or sell a rare and unique Geiser Peerless traction engine. The first thing I did was to contact a local museum that had many other stationary steam engines, and even the only known complete Stanley Steamer that has not been restored, rebuilt, or had any parts removed. I contacted them with the stipulation that I would incur all costs to transport the engine to the museum, I would give the engine a cosmetic restoration, and I would be allowed access to the engine during normal operating hours to remove parts to take home for an eventual fully operational restoration. I provided them with 30 days to think about it and at the end of the 30 days they would not make contact with me. (However, here is the funny part, I did receive a call from them three months after I sold the engine and they said they wanted it, and even requested that I try and get it back and I just had to laugh.) The good news is, that it did not go there because Hurricane Jean and Francis reeked havoc on the building and did destroy some of the artifacts and they are now constructing a new building to current hurricane codes . I then called everyone that told me in the past that if I wanted to sell it they would like to have it with nobody being able to purchase it at the time, even if I gave them a window to sell some of their items or work something out. I was then faced with the option of leaving it outside to rust to ruins in a short time since I am only miles from the coast and am constantly cleaning the salt off of the windows just to have a clear view outside. So I placed the engine on ebay and there it was for a week with many emails and numerous phone calls on the engine. I had a rather long description on the ebay post to begin with, but as each email came in, I added more information and also sent it to all parties that had questions. The auction ended on a weekend, and on one of the days with no bids prior to the time when ebay won’t let auctions end I went on to my account and tried to find how to cancel the auction because I had a change of heart. Being unfamiliar with ebay, I had no success in finding how to end the auction early and I thought that since there were no bids and many emails about the amount of work and money that it would take to get it operating and that they would rather pass on the engine I let it ride. I awaken the morning of the end of the auction to find that the engine had sold, (for less than I paid for it) and it was also going to Europe. At the time, I thought it was kind of neat, because I enjoy looking at foreign engines here at our shows, but since then there has been a trend to take engines and sell them overseas for a profit. Is this wrong? That is for each individual to decide, but some things they should consider are that once they sell the engine overseas they will: a) most likely be ostracized by many folks in the steam hobby that they thought were their friends for years, even decades. b) be seen as one of “those” that sell old iron for a profit overseas (even though they may have lost money) c) have to live with their decision for the rest of their life. d) that once it is gone, it is most likely gone from the shores of their country for good. e) realize that it is between them and the buyer and no one else’s business. f) and this might be a bit of a stretch for some, but should another world war break out, odds are high that the non-native items would be cut up first, or at least that is how it would be at my house. These old iron engines were once what developed this country into what it is today, but today they are seen as “relics” to some, “scrap” to others and a “hobby” to a minimal few in the overall perspective; I recently showed the Z-3 plowing on youtube to a friend and his first comment was about the “bellowing smoky pollution that is contributing to global warming” and then a few other comments and I just waited until he was finished and then explained how this was a part of this nation’s heritage even if he chose not to believe it. The reality is, I recently went to a private collection of engines, and saw many rare and unique engines in a lineup that was not even a glimpse of what the HFM has sold off or hoarded stashed away to never be seen again just like engines that my relative has seen in building after building of the Smithsonian’s storage area off limits to the public, and I then remembered that I did receive a phone call from a representative for this owner asking all about the engine and if I recall correctly, called back and basically said that he could not get the owner to understand the historical significance of the design and engineering of the engine at this time and that the owner was not interested in it because it was not operational. After having the privilege to see the collection, it was nice to see that the owner must have had a change of heart from only owning “operating” engines to any engine of “unique design and/or engineering” because there were many non-operating engines in the line-up. The reality is, the thought crossed my mind that it sure would have been nice to see the old Geiser in the line-up, but it most likely came up for sale prior to the collecting of “non-operating” engines; but it would have fit right in with the rest of the rare ones and I would have been more than happy to work something out to see it in that line-up. The only things I can say is once it’s gone, it is most likely gone forever and you will have to live with your decision. I did sell my engine prior to the overseas trend and thought that others would enjoy it there; but an example of “is it appreciated?” is a Frick that I sold here years ago that made its way overseas. In my eyes it is no longer an original Frick, to the point that it doesn’t look like an American engine anymore with all of the boiler fittings and other fu-fu gizmos and gadgets that has been added to the engine, but I must remember that the owner paid for it and it is theirs to do with as they choose, be it restore it to operating condition for their boiler laws, or cut it up because they just don’t like it anymore. I have also learned that even though you have to do what you have to do, there will always be a line in the sand on any issue, and even lifelong family friends will ostracize you and your forefather for not doing the right thing in “their eyes”. In my heart I did the right thing because at the time I had exhausted all other options that I explored other than giving the engine away or scrapping it, and if one feels that what I did was wrong that is between them and God.


Jeff Smith

On another note, just what is historical about an engine with a new boiler, lots of new sheet metal, new piston/valve rods, canopy etc.? Now that it is operating and lost all of its original parts, has it become a hobby engine? Just like the old axe that has had the handle changed three times and the head twice………………….

Last edited by Jeff Smith; 11-08-2007 at 01:49:12 PM. Reason: forgot the "not" in the opening sentence
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Old 11-08-2007, 01:30:27 PM
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Default Re: Selling our Heritiage...should we or shouldn't we???

As I stated on the off topic forum, I have sold small, rather common pieces (whistles, models, etc.) to overseas buyers and likely will again. BUT it's not ALL about the money. Yes, the overseas buyers will generally pay a fair market price, but they are also quite polite about it.

I'm sorry, but sometimes people who claim to be "caretakers of our heritage" are their own worst enemies. Do you know how wearing it is to have people constantly badger you just to save a crummy $100 or even $20 (off an already fair price)? ... Some people DO get quite nasty if your asking price is higher than THEY want to pay. Some people will also hound you for a piece they want (even if it isn't for sale) until you either sell it to somebody else, or agree to their terms just to make them go away (or maybe threaten to call the cops for harassment). I've even had a couple clowns dicker with me, settle on a price, then walk away saying "If i don't find what I really want I'll be back" (then get mad at you 2 shows later because you've already sold it.) On top of that, if I had a dime for every person who said (often snidely) that a certain piece "used to be $x.xx" (in 1968 maybe) I could probably retire and buy up a lot of stuff myself.

For the record I HAVE offered several of the pieces that eventually ended up overseas to friends for substantially less than I received from the overseas buyer...either they wanted it for LESS than I PAID, wanted me to "hold it for them" indefinitely, or weren't really all that interested.

I've also gotten several nice thank you letters from foreign buyers, some including pictures.... I think I've gotten ONE from a stateside buyer.

When it comes time to sell my "keepers" they will be offered to a close circle of friends who will keep it at the local show first...then to the person who will make the BEST deal for my children's sake.....But then, many of you probably didn't want to hear that.
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Old 11-08-2007, 01:36:53 PM
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Default Re: Selling our Heritiage...should we or shouldn't we???

"When it comes time to sell my "keepers" they will be offered to a close circle of friends who will keep it at the local show first...then to the person who will make the BEST deal for my children's sake.....But then, many of you probably didn't want to hear that."

I'd say that is about all anyone looking from the outside in could ask for.

David
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Old 11-08-2007, 01:46:16 PM
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Default Re: Selling our Heritiage...should we or shouldn't we???

Allen,

Sadly, I see your point. I have witnessed this myself. But, I also have seen what was a year ago a fair price...now be considered a slap in the face. And why, well, it has been a direct result of foreign money paying, usually, a higher dollar amount than most of us hobbyist can afford...at least what I can afford. I know of an engine....a really nice looking engine, that was asking twice the average value of what that size and make was going for...why, cause he knew that eventually someone would come up to his "fair" price. Yes, it is his iron and that person has the right to sell it at what he considers it to be valued at...and I have the choice to walk away. I may be disgusted at the time...but who am I really disgusted with...him or myself for not coming up to his dollar amount!

Obviously, if we want to keep the iron here, we are most likely going to have to pay the bigger dollars....or watch it leave. Sadly, that is the way of economics.

As for your "keepers"...grotto's to you for doing what you plan to do. If those that are in your close circle don't or aren't interested...then you should sell it to whom you deem worthy.

Andy,

You make a good point. I like your thinking...and I guess mine is similar to yours.

Lawrence
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Old 11-08-2007, 02:43:20 PM
Patrick McNallen Patrick McNallen is offline
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Default Re: Selling our Heritiage...should we or shouldn't we???

I would much rather see new, U.S.-manufactured products of all kinds being exported from this country instead of things like century-old steam engines. We need to examine why we have largely lost our competitive position in the world and why our currency is losing favor and we must act to correct the situation. It isn't just oil imports that are hurting us. We are importing just about everything we consume now even as we manufacture and export less and less, and it just can't continue.
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Old 11-08-2007, 03:47:56 PM
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Default Re: Selling our Heritiage...should we or shouldn't we???

Alright, I was going to stay out of this, but I just hit my limit... Look at it this way:

An owner of an antique engine wants top dollar and is willing to sell to the highest bidder, whether foreign or domestic. Money talks.

A buyer of an automobile wants the best value for his dollar and the best quality, whether foreign or domestic. Money speaks here too.

OOPS!!! Do you get my point? This selling of our antiques is no different than our buying habits. Are we willing to pay more for our domestic products, whether antique or modern?

I for one, go out of my way to purchase a vehicle made in USA (internal parts from outside are not under my control) and I may suffer poorer quality or less value per dollar for doing so.

How many people are purchasing this way? Unfortunately in the USA, not very many.

How many people are selling their antiques this way? That's what this thread is about.

Keep in mind that this bulletin board is read world wide and opinions may vary.
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Old 11-08-2007, 03:56:22 PM
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Default Re: Selling our Heritiage...should we or shouldn't we???

Well said Harry... My 2500 Chevy 4X4 pickup is a 1995 and my wife's little Buick Century is an '02. My parts seem to cost less than some European types I've bought parts for, for my daughter. Then I keep hearing how the superior Pacific/Orient cars are built here, but... their profits leave here.
Gary
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Old 11-08-2007, 04:18:45 PM
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Default Re: Selling our Heritiage...should we or shouldn't we???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry View Post
Alright, I was going to stay out of this, but I just hit my limit... Look at it this way:

An owner of an antique engine wants top dollar and is willing to sell to the highest bidder, whether foreign or domestic. Money talks.

A buyer of an automobile wants the best value for his dollar and the best quality, whether foreign or domestic. Money speaks here too.

OOPS!!! Do you get my point? This selling of our antiques is no different than our buying habits. Are we willing to pay more for our domestic products, whether antique or modern?

I for one, go out of my way to purchase a vehicle made in USA (internal parts from outside are not under my control) and I may suffer poorer quality or less value per dollar for doing so.

How many people are purchasing this way? Unfortunately in the USA, not very many.

How many people are selling their antiques this way? That's what this thread is about.

Keep in mind that this bulletin board is read world wide and opinions may vary.
Harry,

I can see and respect your point....but, the grave difference between selling of our antique steam engines vs....well anything....they are not being mass produced new, as are the cars that you speak of. So...although at face value they are the same...they really are not. The point is, are we only looking at these as a dollar investment or the curator of our past history, which should be preserved here and not necissarily over there. Just stirring the pot some.

And, I drive a Ford. But sadly, a lot of the parts are made over seas...just assembled here!

Lawrence
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Old 11-08-2007, 05:01:56 PM
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Default Re: Selling our Heritiage...should we or shouldn't we???

Well,
this is indeed good reading and so far pretty clean exchange of opinions/ideas... I have not met any of our long-distance friends...but I think that they are pretty good and do not wish to upset them in any way....but I do find it disheartening to see a local engine that I have known go off-shores without any of the local folks even being aware that it was available. I can also relate to some of our Canadian friends loosing a lot of their big engines over the years with most of them coming to the US. I imagine that the same things happens in Europe as well....we just have not heard about it as much.

I dont own any engines that would be considered antique...in fact the oldest boiler that I have was built in 1988. I have sold a lot of castings out of the country, but because everything that I sell is renewable I dont have any regrets, same as Bob Oliver selling a boiler south of the border.

I certainly didnt like it when the "Little Princess" 1/2 scale model went to England but then again I should have purchased it when it was for sale.
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Old 11-08-2007, 05:08:22 PM
Ray Wangler Ray Wangler is offline
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Default Re: Selling our Heritiage...should we or shouldn't we???

Lawrence, Gary, Jeff, Allen and others. Interesting stories about engines that have/have not crossed the ocean. The general thought that “Europeans” are one collective entity hording our (whatever “our” means) engines, or “Europe” as one place engines go, confuses me a bit. I’ve known people from both Europe and Australia that collected engines and they were nice, intelligent, well disposed people that had the same desires to own fine old machinery as do their American counterparts. The beauty of the free market economy is the ability of a buyer and seller to exchange goods and services with impunity. I’d take exception to any actions that impeded that exchange. Would I PREFER American buyers get these engines? Yes! Would I support any legislation, governing they stay here? No.

A couple of years ago I met a fellow from New Zealand that came to the U.S. and Canada yearly with the express purpose of filling a tote or two with tractors and engines and taking them back to his country. It was disheartening that New Zealand had laws against anything of historical significance (whatever that means) leaving their country. Meaning, in short, our stuff can go there, but their stuff can’t come here! That raised the hair on the back of my neck a little, until I really thought about it. Even if it seems wrong that they have protected their heritage, and disregarded other countries’ heritage, I’d rather our countries were “free”. The price of that freedom is not cheap. Those of us that have served our country under flags of freedom have tolerated the burning of those flags under the auspices of that freedom. It’s not easy, but it’s better than some minority legislating the way the rest of us think!

Good discussion

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Ray

Kiwi Todd………you out there with an opinion?
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Old 11-08-2007, 05:17:44 PM
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Default Re: Selling our Heritiage...should we or shouldn't we???

Quote:
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Keep in mind that this bulletin board is read world wide and opinions may vary.
I thought I interject here and point out that this is a "hot button" topic in many other regions in the world; in fact it has hampered research for my project.

There used to be a publication called the Steam Engine List for Australia. I have a copy of it; it only lists engine details, no information about the owner. But, it is no longer available because it was felt that it was being used as a "shopping list" by buyers in the UK and Europe.

I think it is also hard to obtain details on some engines overseas because there is (justifiable?) fear that my database will also be used for the same purpose. I have a contact in Chile would could probably share more information if he wanted to; many of the engines being offered for sale in the UK come from Chile.

There are indeed quite a few engines in the UK and Europe that have come from Australia, South America and other parts of the world. It is not limited to North America.

There have been comments made on this board in the past about individuals who refuse to sell an engine for whatever reason, even though it is just rotting into the ground and has been for several decades. Looking at some of the engines recently imported from Chile and elsewhere; should they have been left where they were to furture decay and maybe be scrapped in the hopes a local buyer would be found, or exported to the UK or Europe where they will be lovingly restored and displayed?

I have no dog in this fight; but I think there many sides to the issue; and if you look with a wide enough lens; it can come back around. Should we import steam locomotives and traction engines that were originally made here and exported elsewhere? Referring back to an earlier thread, several steam locomotives that were originally built in the UK and shipped elsewhere for use have since been re-imported back to the UK for restoration to operation. Many of the traction engines that have been re-imported worldwide were originally made in the UK. While it was the loss of the country from which it left; does it also not have some heritage in the country in which it was made, especially since other examples also operated there? To a buyer used to thinking that way, buying and importing an American built engine could easily seem like no big deal.

Then we are back to the seller. Australia and other countries have since passed laws that make it extremely difficult (it should probably be impossible, but an occasional one still sneaks out ) to export "heritage" items like steam engines from the country. Do we want to nip the situation in the bud by passing similiar laws; while at the same time further eroding personal freedom in this country? Should we show the same concern for heritage when that "must have" engine shows up for sale in another country? Should every Case traction engine (just to pull an example out of thin air) be labeled a "heritage" item, when we have thousands of them here already?

Finally, the UK had the situation in reverse when the famous steam locomotive Flying Scotsman came up for sale just recently. It has already gone once to Australia; and it looked like it was going to be bought by an overseas buyer once again. I was given some copies of some UK Railway magazines at the time; and the headlines and articles sound like some of what I have been reading here. I forget the exact arrangements; but someone or group of someones in the UK did step up and buy it; I believe to donate it to the National Railway Museum in York. So these things can and do come around.

Just some more "stuff" to feed the fire....

-James Hefner
Hebrews 10:20a

Surviving World Steam Project

International Stationary Steam Engine Society
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  #17  
Old 11-08-2007, 05:55:04 PM
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20 Reeves Highwheeler 20 Reeves Highwheeler is offline
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Default Re: Selling our Heritiage...should we or shouldn't we???

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I have no dog in this fight
James, I like that statement. I don't either. It does remind me of one of my wife's favorite sayings... "I don't have to attend every fight I'm invited to."
Gary
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  #18  
Old 11-08-2007, 06:59:51 PM
Keith E. Keith E. is offline
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Default Re: Selling our Heritiage...should we or shouldn't we???

OK have to make a comment on this. This is Keiths wife.If the buyer is from a different country, and they are SHOWING our fine USA craftsmanship, whats the prob? Question, how many engines/steamers are in the USA that were not made here??? I have seen a few at shows how about you folks? It works both ways. I myself like to see what was made in other parts of the world.
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Old 11-08-2007, 08:08:20 PM
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Default Re: Selling our Heritiage...should we or shouldn't we???

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Originally Posted by Patrick McNallen View Post
I would much rather see new, U.S.-manufactured products of all kinds being exported from this country instead of things like century-old steam engines. We need to examine why we have largely lost our competitive position in the world and why our currency is losing favor and we must act to correct the situation. It isn't just oil imports that are hurting us. We are importing just about everything we consume now even as we manufacture and export less and less, and it just can't continue.
One reason, it costs too much to manufacture here anymore. Break that down as to why and thats your answer, although its too late to bring it back. Only one thing is important in buisness, the bottom line. Too much would have to change here to do so. We also are greatly lacking a skilled work force since these jobs left. Doesnt take much to stock shelves but running a lathe does. High schools are abandoning industrial arts like the plague, no reason to have them. I would like to see some of our jobs come back from China with all this lead problems they have now. Those companies deserved what they got.
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Old 11-08-2007, 09:33:57 PM
John Deck John Deck is offline
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Default Re: Selling our Heritiage...should we or shouldn't we???

I have one big question for all of you that talk about iron going overseas and never being seen again. Just how many traction engines have been sold overseas and can be documented by reliable sources. I have heard all kinds of stories but would like to see some hard numbers before we all get our undies in a bunch about this issue. Remember we live in a nation that is based on capitalism and we enjoy the freedom here to practice the good old art of making money by buying and selling things on the open market as long as we dont violate export laws.
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