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Carburetors, Mixers, Fuel Pumps and fuel delivery Discussion about misc. carbs, mixers, fuel pumps, injectors.

Carburetors, Mixers, Fuel Pumps and fuel delivery

Stover E 8 Standard Fuel Pump


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  #1  
Old 09-05-2018, 06:29:23 AM
EMU EMU is offline
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Cool Stover E 8 Standard Fuel Pump

Understanding the Fuel Pump 1913 E 8 Standard Hit Miss , The Fuel Pump plunger being activated via the ' striker ' connected to the Control Arm . Push's down the Plunger , as the Fuel is Pumped into the Bowl , any access Fuel Flows down a Tube , back to the Tank .
Question : Does the Fuel have to be in '' Constant Flow '' back to the Tank . In relation to the amount of Fuel needed to supply the demand for the Engine .

Obviously a Critical element would be the height of the Over Flow Pipe .

Would I be correct in ' saying' that a Hit Miss Engine with a Mixer , that the Fuel Pump would not be in constant Flow . As compered to Throttle Governed Constant Firing Engines which are in Constant Flow ...
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Old 09-05-2018, 06:34:27 AM
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Cool Re: Stover e 8 standard fuel pump

Fuel Pump E 8 Standard
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Old 09-05-2018, 06:47:04 AM
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Cool Re: Stover e 8 standard fuel pump

Smokstak members I have installed clear fuel lines to enable a clearer understanding of the behaviour of the Fuel in the Lines .
The ' Dart ' Check Valve or [ ' value valve ' ] is Functioning and maintains the fuel on ' demand ' available to the Pump . Although opinion is needed for the return line . As can be seen the fixtures are connected to the bottom of the Tank .
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Old 09-05-2018, 07:09:59 AM
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Cool Re: Stover e 8 standard fuel pump

Question: In the above Fuel Line Set Up it is concerning , should the Over Flow Line be full of Fuel .
Or can the Over Flow Line be Full of Fuel , without affecting operation of the Demands of Pump , to Engine Demand .

---------- Post added at 09:06:17 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:56:40 PM ----------

If ' one' disconnects the Fuel Line from Pump to at the Mixer , and Hand Primes the Pump , copious to enough Fuel is being Pumped and is available . Understanding that Without the Engine operating ' one' can Hand Prime the Pump with Fuel Line now Connected and will ' not ' Flood from the Mixer . Understanding that once the Engine is Operating then it obtains Fuel from Mixer Orifice the Line being connected to The Fuel Pump .

---------- Post added at 09:09:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:06:17 PM ----------

Is it possible for a Smokstak Member to Post an Image of the Fuel Line Set Up for this Type of Engine . Please . So I can ensure that what is set up is correct .
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Old 09-05-2018, 04:15:10 PM
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Default Re: Stover E 8 Standard Fuel Pump

As long as the fuel stays up to the level of the overflow then all is good.
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Old 09-05-2018, 05:27:02 PM
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Default Re: Stover E 8 Standard Fuel Pump

If the Fuel Pump Doesn't Keep Up with the engine under load and the return line quits flowing, then the fuel level is no longer up to the top of the stand pipe, and as the level continues to drop it will eventually Lean-Out under load.

The Stand Pipe simply works like a Float to maintain the fuel level, except it does so by returning the excess fuel back to the tank rather than restricting the input from the fuel pump.

You Want Constant Flow through the Return Line to maintain the proper fuel level.

I Believe the return line should also be plumbed in to the top of the tank so it can flow unrestricted to avoid backing up at the stand pipe and over-flowing or running rich.

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Old 09-05-2018, 09:26:28 PM
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Default Re: Stover E 8 Standard Fuel Pump

If the over flow line is not in constant flow, would that prevent or complicate start up .?

---------- Post added at 11:26:28 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:23:21 AM ----------

So if the over flow pipe in pump is too high would this affect operation . On start up .
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Old 09-06-2018, 05:27:17 AM
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Cool Re: Stover E 8 Standard Fuel Pump

Otto Sawyer ,
If the Over Flow Tube is screwed in too High , and their is no Over Flow or Return to Tank . ?

Better Still if The Overflow Tube is screwed in too High , and their is No Constant Flow back too Tank .
With a Hit Miss Engine would it affect Start Up .?.
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Old 09-06-2018, 05:34:37 PM
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Photo Re: Stover E 8 Standard Fuel Pump

It Shouldn't Have Much If Any Effect on Starting the Engine as long as you Manually Operate the Pump to Fill The Carb Before Starting.

If the Overflow (Stand Pipe) is Too High it will Likely Be Dribbling Fuel Out of the Carb.

It May or May Not end up running Rich and/or Flooding the engine depending on the design of the carb and whether the excess fuel Leaks Out or overflows Internally and gets Sucked Into The Engine.

Our Clubs 6hp Rawleigh Schryer (Hit & Miss) Engine always leaked gas all the time but nobody wanted to do anything about it. Last Summer while we had the engine up at the County Fair a couple weeks before our Threshing Show I pulled the carb and after removing a pipe plug from the top I used a Countersink Bit in my drill and knocked the top of the pipe down an 1/8 inch lower. Cleaned the chips out with a magnet and carb cleaner and put it back on the engine.

No More Puking Gas all over the ground as the overflow flowed the excess gas back into the tank where it belongs.

On Uneven Ground it still dribbles a Little Gas out the Choke Plate indicating the Stand Pipe could probably be lowered another 1/16 to 1/8 inch, but I haven't done any more with it yet as it is good 90% of the time where we run it.

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Old 09-06-2018, 05:55:41 PM
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Default Re: Stover E 8 Standard Fuel Pump

Joe Maurer has informed that these Engines Stover must operate on level ground .

---------- Post added at 07:55:41 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:52:37 AM ----------

As you stated earlier the Constant Flow is utilised on Early Throttle Governed Engines which fire constantly . Not hit miss .
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Old 09-06-2018, 09:44:28 PM
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Default Re: Stover E 8 Standard Fuel Pump

Quote:
Originally Posted by EMU View Post
As you stated earlier the Constant Flow is utilised on Early Throttle Governed Engines which fire constantly . Not hit miss .
As I Noted in my last post, the Club's Rawleigh Schryer Engine Is a Hit And Miss and it has the "Constant Flow" Fuel Pump with a Stand Pipe Overflow In The Carb as shown in the pictures I posted.

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Old 12-19-2018, 08:36:35 AM
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Default Re: Stover E 8 Standard Fuel Pump

I have been plumbing in the fuel lines for the E8 Cooper / Stover , although it has come to my attention , that the return line from the Fuel Pump to Tank should have been larger than the feed line . At present I have 3/8 OD Soft Drawn Copper Pipe from Pump to Mixer and 3/8 OD Copper Pipe from Pump Overflow to Tank .
To boil it down , what size should the fuel lines be .
At present the return line and pump to mixer are the same size , both 3/8 OD .
The feed from Tank to Pump is 3/8 ID ……
I haven't started the Engine as ' Yet' to attempt to start with new plumbing ..
I haven't attempted to plumb the Tank to Pump line , as 'yet' .
The image shows , by following the scenario .
Asking for opinions .
It seems '' all lines '' were originally 3/8 ID .
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Last edited by EMU; 12-19-2018 at 04:13:28 PM.
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Old 12-19-2018, 04:11:30 PM
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Default Re: Stover E 8 Standard Fuel Pump

Thanks Otto - Sawyer please read above for advice
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Old 12-20-2018, 08:34:25 PM
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Photo Re: Stover E 8 Standard Fuel Pump

Quote:
Originally Posted by EMU View Post
I have been plumbing in the fuel lines for the E8 Cooper / Stover , although it has come to my attention , that the return line from the Fuel Pump to Tank should have been larger than the feed line .
Now that I already Replied to the Wrong Thread about this. . .

There is No Reason Why you would need a Larger Return Line than the Feed Line.

The Fuel Pump only pumps fuel on the down-stroke of the pump (or half the time) while the return line is Continuous Flow IF/When There is Excess Fuel to return.

My 4hp Stover T has the same size in as out, as does my New-Way.

I'd have to do some digging to find pictures of my other engines, or do some digging out in the shed to get new pictures of them, but the 6hp Fairbanks Morse Engine on my 1/2 Scale OTTO tractor also has the same size feed & return lines.

IF you're running over and slobbering gas all over the place it's because your stand-pipe is set too high.

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Old 12-21-2018, 04:49:02 AM
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Default Re: Stover E 8 Standard Fuel Pump

Ok , Otto - Sawyer , as you can see via the image I supplied , I plumbed the line from pump to mixer and overflow to tank , 3/8 OD .
'ONE' Can also see further back , the line from tank to pump which I left untouched is 3/8 ID . Asking with your experience , so far with ' my' plumbing , how do you think this will go .
Ultimately getting it going and trying it will be the test ..
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Old 12-21-2018, 03:31:37 PM
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Default Re: Stover E 8 Standard Fuel Pump

To be honest with you, I hadn't even looked at the pictures close enough before to realize that your stand pipe over-flow was In The Fuel Pump instead of being in the carb.

Doesn't change a whole lot of what I've already noted, other than if the stand pipe is too high it would be puking gas out the fuel pump instead of the carb.

I've never worked on that style set up, but would assume the carb Sucks Gas out of the fuel pump bowl the same as say a Stover KE (or even a John Deere E) would draw it up out of the gas tank so as long as there is "Some" Fuel in the Pump Bowl it should draw through.

Given the distance between the carb & pump I'm guessing there should be a check-ball in the end of the carb line where it goes into the pump to keep it from draining back and starving the carb.

As far as how high the stand pipe needs to be, you can hold down the arm on the pump plunger to keep it from pumping and see how long it runs on the amount of fuel in the pump bowl and figure however low it gets before causing it not to run would be the low limit and where it causes gas to overflow out the top of the pump to be the upper limit. Anywhere between the two should be good. Just need to maintain the fuel level above the top of the fitting where the line goes in from the carb so it doesn't suck air.

Others may have more input on that.


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Old 12-22-2018, 07:10:22 AM
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Default Re: Stover E 8 Standard Fuel Pump

Upload of further detail .
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Old 12-22-2018, 10:48:52 PM
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Default Re: Stover E 8 Standard Fuel Pump

Looks like you have a check-valve there between the pump and the tank which is good, but I'm still thinking you may need one on the pump end of the line going to the carburetor too, especially if you try to run the engine real slow where it would have more time to drain back down from the carb to the pump-bowl.

I Could be wrong on that, as it will depend on how high the carb is versus the pump. . .

I guess try it without, and if it runs OK then it's good to go, but if it seems to starve for gas that extra check valve may be all it needs.

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Old 03-11-2019, 04:18:21 AM
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Cool Re: Stover E 8 Standard Fuel Pump

The line from pump to mixer is on a slight decent . I understand your concern .

Would you know of the size of the ball bearing , inside the ''' plunger' Stover E 8 Standard .

---------- Post added at 06:18:21 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:16:27 PM ----------

I will post to Forum as well .
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