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Vintage Diesel and Oil Stationary Engines Fairbanks Morse, Lister, Petter, Witte and other pump injected Diesel oil engines.

Vintage Diesel and Oil Stationary  Engines

1-71 Detroit Diesel (GM)


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  #261  
Old 09-02-2018, 08:31:49 PM
Vanman Vanman is offline
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Default Re: 1-71 Detroit Diesel (GM)

300 rpm, 24 pole, would generate 60 cycles.
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  #262  
Old 09-03-2018, 01:59:19 AM
The Diesel Doctor The Diesel Doctor is offline
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Default Re: 1-71 Detroit Diesel (GM)

If these engines are 32E 12s, I found info that they produced 120 HP at 360 RPM and turned 70.4 KW alternators. Have friends on molokai that can confirm if they are still there and get some nameplate info and photos. Will share when i get more info. AL
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  #263  
Old 09-03-2018, 07:44:28 AM
haywaj haywaj is offline
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Default Re: 1-71 Detroit Diesel (GM)

It will be interesting to see if the generator still has its copper windings.
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  #264  
Old 09-18-2018, 10:01:54 AM
Myrle Gorsline Myrle Gorsline is offline
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Default Re: 1-71 detroit diesel

I have serial number 17108.
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  #265  
Old 10-24-2018, 11:13:23 PM
The Diesel Doctor The Diesel Doctor is offline
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Default Re: 1-71 Detroit Diesel (GM)

Added another detroit to my collection. A 140 HP 3-53T with a bypass blower. At low speed the blower and turbo supply air and scavenge the cylinders. As the engine speed and load increase boost pressure opens a valve on the blower and opens a passage in the end plate. When this happens even though the blower is still turning it is not using HP to pump air. The air is being supplied by the turbo. That extra HP is now at the flywheel. ALClick image for larger version

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  #266  
Old 10-25-2018, 08:27:16 AM
Sooty Jim Sooty Jim is offline
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Default Re: 1-71 Detroit Diesel (GM)

Bypass blower... didn't know about that! Is that how all the turbocharged GM 2-strokes worked or was it something different. If it was normal... boy have I been negligent in my research!
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  #267  
Old 10-25-2018, 01:00:15 PM
The Diesel Doctor The Diesel Doctor is offline
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JIM, This is the first time i have seen a by pass blower on a 53T series engine. I see a lot of them on 71 and 92 turbocharged high output marine engines. Johnson and Towers were known for their high HP two cycle marine units. The inline 485 HP 6-71T they put together had a bypass blower. I have been told that a 6-71N running at full loaded RPM requires 35 HP just to run turn the blower. ALClick image for larger version

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  #268  
Old 10-25-2018, 02:20:58 PM
Vanman Vanman is offline
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Default Re: 1-71 Detroit Diesel (GM)

If I install ENOUGH radiator, could I put one of those 485 HP 671s in my BUS?
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  #269  
Old 10-25-2018, 03:28:31 PM
The Diesel Doctor The Diesel Doctor is offline
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Smile Re: 1-71 Detroit Diesel (GM)

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Originally Posted by Vanman View Post
If I install ENOUGH radiator, could I put one of those 485 HP 671s in my BUS?
Perhaps, The other trick they used was to cool the fuel in and out to get all those BTUs concentrated during injection. The also cooled the incoming turbo air by using a air to raw water inter cooler. Maybe a bath tub full of ice water in the bus could be used for short trips. AL
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  #270  
Old 10-25-2018, 05:45:35 PM
Vanman Vanman is offline
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Default Re: 1-71 Detroit Diesel (GM)

A bathtub full of ice water. I love it lol! And when I reach my destination I could take a nice warm bath.

I guess the best that could be done then would be an air to air intercooler, and turn down the fuel rate some. Maybe 425 HP?
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  #271  
Old 10-25-2018, 10:05:02 PM
K-Tron K-Tron is offline
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Default Re: 1-71 Detroit Diesel (GM)

Al, The military put two bypass blowers on the 6V53TIB 350hp engines. I installed a bypass blower endplate on my 4-53T blower, it was supposed to add 7 horsepower by reducing the drag of the blower while the turbocharger was working. I noticed no difference from the factory 170hp Brazilian 4-53T used in my truck. I transformed my green 4-53T into a silver 4-53T during the rebuild. The only silver aspect I did not add was the aluminum valve cover and the bypass blower. Instead I opted for larger injectors and a natural blower. Better scavenging and more low end grunt is more useful in a medium duty truck than an additional 7hp on the top end.

Jim, The bypass blower was part of the "Silver 53" package that had been released in 1985. It included a harmonic balancer on the front of the crankshaft, a bypass blower, upgraded turbocharger, cross-head pistons, short port liners, hardened blower drive shaft, hardened timing gears, upgraded injectors, a cast aluminum valve cover with silicone seal and a fancy looking silver paint job.

Chris

Last edited by K-Tron; 10-25-2018 at 10:30:22 PM.
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  #272  
Old 10-26-2018, 01:09:01 AM
Vanman Vanman is offline
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Default Re: 1-71 Detroit Diesel (GM)

Without the bypass blower, one would expect the turbo compressor to start driving the blower at some point, putting mechanical power back into the engine. At the expense of some boost pressure, of course.
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  #273  
Old 10-26-2018, 02:00:05 AM
The Diesel Doctor The Diesel Doctor is offline
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Default Re: 1-71 Detroit Diesel (GM)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vanman View Post
Without the bypass blower, one would expect the turbo compressor to start driving the blower at some point, putting mechanical power back into the engine. At the expense of some boost pressure, of course.
That would seem logical. The blower is pretty much a positive displacement air pump. The blower turns twice the speed of the engine so when the 6-71 TIB is turning 2500 RPM the blower would be running at 5000 RPM. It is working against the boost pressure in the air box. You have two sources of air and maybe it is more efficient to run using the turbo only. The safest place to be when your blower is turning 5000 RPM is at 45 degrees to any corner of the engine. AL
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  #274  
Old 10-26-2018, 01:46:02 PM
Vanman Vanman is offline
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Default Re: 1-71 Detroit Diesel (GM)

Yikes. My 671 mounts horizontal, amidships, under the frame with the blower immediately under the floor. Under where the kitchen will be (or is that the galley?). Maybe I should put a Kevlar blanket over it!

The turbocharged EMDs have no blower besides the turbo. Instead the turbo is driven through a gear train (to get the speed up) and an overrunning clutch. As the engine takes more load, the turbine makes more power, relieving the engine of some of the load to drive the blower. With more load the turbine will accelerate the blower beyond the speed of the gear drive, unloading it completely, and making boost in the process.

I always wanted to adapt a 6-110 (with the gear driven centrifugal blower) to operate just like this. Then lay it on it's side and stuff it under the floor of my bus.
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  #275  
Old 01-05-2019, 01:32:32 AM
The Diesel Doctor The Diesel Doctor is offline
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Default Re: 1-71 Detroit Diesel (GM)

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ID:	325782 Customer complained that his Detroit 4-53 in his Grove crane was wet stacking. Upon inspection and disassembly found a crack in the cylinder head which had let coolant into #2 cylinder which was on the compression stroke. When the engine was started there was not enough space in that cylinder and it bent the connecting rod. The wet stacking was caused by a broken wrist pin retainer on #3 piston Even with these faults the engine had power and a clean exhaust. IT was manufactured in 1979. From the dates stamped on the crankshaft bearings these were the original parts. Doing an inframe with new cylinder kits, rod and head. Maybe it will run another 40 years. AL
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  #276  
Old 01-05-2019, 10:34:58 AM
cornbinder89 cornbinder89 is offline
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Default Re: 1-71 Detroit Diesel (GM)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vanman View Post
Without the bypass blower, one would expect the turbo compressor to start driving the blower at some point, putting mechanical power back into the engine. At the expense of some boost pressure, of course.
Doesn't work like that. The blower is a positive displacement pump, so when you increase the pressure on the "suction side" it still increase the pressure at the same rate as it would naturally asperated, so the load on the blower drive will increase as the inlet pressure goes up, at some point it will snap the drive quill. Put another way, if a fixed displacement pump has a 2:1 pressure rise across it, it will still raise the pressure at the same rate when the inlet is above atmosphic, but the load to do so will be higher, as the inlet air is now more dense.
It is why the factory built the bypass blower, and decreased the blower speed on turbo engines.
The (later) 110 used the same blower as the 6-71 but with a different drive ratio, 1/3rd faster to feed the bigger engine.

Last edited by cornbinder89; 01-05-2019 at 11:11:31 AM.
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  #277  
Old 01-05-2019, 01:25:08 PM
cornbinder89 cornbinder89 is offline
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Default Re: 1-71 Detroit Diesel (GM)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vanman View Post
I always wanted to adapt a 6-110 (with the gear driven centrifugal blower) to operate just like this. Then lay it on it's side and stuff it under the floor of my bus.
GM tried the centrifugal blower 110 in trucks and found it had a tendency to snap blower drives when shifts were made. They do best in constant or relatively constant speed applications.
Over running or two speed drives have been used successfully but can be a maintance headache . I could see them work OK in the EMD where minimal speed changes happen. One problem is the relatively fast speed needed to drive the centrifugal compressor, the friction losses remain in the geartrain even with the compressor "over running".
GM went with the roots type blower on later 110's and found it worked well.
There is some interest again in turbo-compounding where the turbine is connected to the crankshaft to return power to the crank at speed.
The 110 is kind of an orphan so finding one and the parts to adapt to a vehicle is going to be tough. I looked into putting one in a truck once. The weight and size of a K Cummins with the output of an L10!
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  #278  
Old 01-05-2019, 01:59:12 PM
The Diesel Doctor The Diesel Doctor is offline
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Default Re: 1-71 Detroit Diesel (GM)

Great info. Did you work at the factory? I have two injector timing tools for the 6-110. One was for the engine with the roots and the other was for the centrifugal set up. Do you know why they did that? AL
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  #279  
Old 01-05-2019, 05:11:10 PM
cornbinder89 cornbinder89 is offline
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Default Re: 1-71 Detroit Diesel (GM)

No I never worked at GM. PIE tried running the 6-110 over the rockies and had multiple blower drive failures. I read about it in Wheels of Time.
I put a bid in on a 6-110 but was out bid. It was the newer Roots type blower engine.

It can be hard to wrap ones mind about what goes on inside a 2 stroke. Even turbo'd, almost all the air passes thru the blower lobes, when the bypass is open, All the bypass does is provide another "leak off" path so the blower isn't producing any pressure rise across it. The air doesn't go from the turbo thru the bypass passage, rather it passes thru the blower but no pressure difference between the inlet and outlet.
I toy'ed around with different modifications to 6-71's as I own two that are in trucks.
I don't know all the differences between the Roots and Centrifugal blower engines. My guess is the difference in the injectors has to do with how much air can be provided at different speeds, My guess is the Roots has more air at lower speeds than the centrifugal, so the injectors need to account for this.
The Roots blower is the same between the 110 and 71 but with different drive gears (larger and faster ratio). It should be possible to make a bypass blower for the 110 with -71 parts.
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  #280  
Old 04-09-2019, 02:11:17 AM
The Diesel Doctor The Diesel Doctor is offline
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Default Re: 1-71 Detroit Diesel (GM)

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ID:	332388 Doing some transmission work on the tug Roxie. She is powered by a pair of 4-71Ns through 4.5 to 1 Kanzaki reverse and reduction gears. AL
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