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Worthington twin tandem double acting gas engines


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  #1  
Old 06-16-2013, 02:08:41 PM
stormlord5500 stormlord5500 is offline
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Default Worthington twin tandem double acting gas engines

Hello all!

I am new to Smokestak and I have a love for the old double acting gas engines such as Snow, Cooper-Bessemer, ect.

One I have not been able to find much info on is the Worthington. I have seen the YouTube video of the twin double acting Worthington at Rollag. The ones I am referring to is the 24" or 26" by 36" twin tandems. I would really like as much info as I can get. I really need to know what the exhaust rocker arm looks like. I am trying to gather info to start building running and accurate {as possible} models of all the double acting gas engines built by the various companies, American and European. I appreciate all help I can get. Thank you.
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Old 06-16-2013, 10:29:15 PM
Bill Hazzard Bill Hazzard is offline
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Default Re: Worthington twin tandem double acting gas engines

We have blue prints for our 485 HP Cooper engine at Rough and Tumble. I think one of our members can scan them and make a PDF file.
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Old 06-16-2013, 10:57:49 PM
stormlord5500 stormlord5500 is offline
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Default Re: Worthington twin tandem double acting gas engines

Sure I would like some Cooper blue prints. Appreciate it greatly. By the way you guys did an excellent job on restoring that Cooper engine.
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Old 06-17-2013, 06:30:51 AM
JSWithers JSWithers is offline
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Default Re: Worthington twin tandem double acting gas engines

Quote:
Originally Posted by stormlord5500 View Post
Hello all!

I am new to Smokestak and I have a love for the old double acting gas engines such as Snow, Cooper-Bessemer, ect.

One I have not been able to find much info on is the Worthington. I have seen the YouTube video of the twin double acting Worthington at Rollag.
Rollag has both a 330hp Worthington (side by side twin double acting) and a 600hp Snow (tandem twin double acting). You should come to Rollag labor day weekend and see them both run. I'm sure we would let you take all the pictures you wanted of them. And there are some knowledgeable people to ask questions.
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Old 06-17-2013, 06:50:55 PM
stormlord5500 stormlord5500 is offline
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Default Re: Worthington twin tandem double acting gas engines

I wish I could go see them but the way my job is that would be out of the question right now. I have seen the youtube videos of the 330 Worthington and the 600 Snow. The Worthingtons I am referring to are the big twin tandems about the same size as the Cooper-Bessemer engines which they also ran with in some stations. They were the successor to the Snows. It is the only engine I can't find much info on. I only have maybe Three pictures, no engineering drawings or anything. There is a low quality video of them on youtube in a shut down station. they already broke them up for scrap, GRRRRRR!!!!!! I thank you for your reply.
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Old 06-18-2013, 06:20:16 AM
JSWithers JSWithers is offline
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Default Re: Worthington twin tandem double acting gas engines

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Originally Posted by jswithers View Post
Rollag has both a 330hp Worthington (side by side twin double acting) and a 600hp Snow (tandem twin double acting).
And I meant tandem double acting not tandem twin. I do believe there is a tandem twin Snow going together. Michigan I think.
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Old 06-18-2013, 08:46:47 AM
Bill Hazzard Bill Hazzard is offline
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Default Re: Worthington twin tandem double acting gas engines

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Originally Posted by stormlord5500 View Post
I wish I could go see them but the way my job is that would be out of the question right now. I have seen the youtube videos of the 330 Worthington and the 600 Snow. The Worthingtons I am referring to are the big twin tandems about the same size as the Cooper-Bessemer engines which they also ran with in some stations. They were the successor to the Snows. It is the only engine I can't find much info on. I only have maybe Three pictures, no engineering drawings or anything. There is a low quality video of them on youtube in a shut down station. they already broke them up for scrap, GRRRRRR!!!!!! I thank you for your reply.
Would you provide a link to the Worthingtons on youtube?
Thanks, Bill
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Old 06-18-2013, 06:37:42 PM
stormlord5500 stormlord5500 is offline
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Default Re: Worthington twin tandem double acting gas engines

Sure this link should work:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDgMgmnT128

At first you will see the Cooper-Bessemers then the Worthingtons. This is a picture of an older style of these that has the valve gear on the inside of the cylinder banks. I can use the picture to get a good idea of how to build most of the model engine accept the exhaust valve rocker and cage. That's the problem I am having. I think these Worthingtons are all gone now.
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  #9  
Old 06-18-2013, 06:41:04 PM
stormlord5500 stormlord5500 is offline
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Default Re: Worthington twin tandem double acting gas engines

Yes, Buckley michigan. I have seen pictures. An awesome undertaking indeed. Kudos to all those that save these engines. I am sad to thing that the big Worthingtons are all gone. They seem way more rare than the Coopers and Snows.
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Old 06-18-2013, 10:20:12 PM
Bill Hazzard Bill Hazzard is offline
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Default Re: Worthington twin tandem double acting gas engines

Thanks for the link. National Transit made TDA engines also. They were eccentric engines like the Coopers but I don't belive that any survive.
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Old 06-19-2013, 06:49:58 AM
JSWithers JSWithers is offline
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Default Re: Worthington twin tandem double acting gas engines

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Originally Posted by stormlord5500 View Post
Yes, Buckley michigan. I have seen pictures. An awesome undertaking indeed. Kudos to all those that save these engines. I am sad to thing that the big Worthingtons are all gone. They seem way more rare than the Coopers and Snows.
I wouldn't say the Snows are common. I could be wrong but as I remember it the 600 Snow at Rollag was in the same building as the one at Coolspring. They were the last surviving 600's. There were some others in the building at one time and there was a twin in the building also. Our Snow at Rollag was indeed a big project. Rollag accepted it as a donation under condition that dad be in charge of getting it home and set up. There were teams from here that traveled to Pennsylvania a couple different weekends one fall and removed it from the building (with the help of others from Coolspring) and was shipped to Minnesota. Then it waited 7 yrs for it's turn on the project list (for funding). Then it was an intense 3 yr push to build foundation, clean and paint, reassemble and get running. When dad pulled the lever for the air it was running after the first intake and compression. There were dozens of people and thousands of hours responsible for this. A lot of dedication to the project and the association. That is one reason why a lot of engines don't get saved. It's a lot of work and money. And there's a lot of what's in it for me. Many thanks again to all who helped make the Snow at Rollag a reality.
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Old 06-19-2013, 06:21:13 PM
stormlord5500 stormlord5500 is offline
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Default Re: Worthington twin tandem double acting gas engines

I am very appreciative and understanding of what you guys do. I wish I could be doing it with you. I did go to the Flywheelers park here in Florida and watched the 400 hp snow run. I could feel the firing impulses through the ground 20 feet away!!! I did not mean to say the Snows were common. Yet, I have seen more info and videos of Snow engines, and more surviving Snow engines than Worthingtons.

Yes Bill I actually have a cylinder cross section and pictures of the Nat'l-Trans engines.
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Old 06-19-2013, 07:02:13 PM
stormlord5500 stormlord5500 is offline
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Default Re: Worthington twin tandem double acting gas engines

This is the National Transit. It is a beautiful engine. One thing I am trying to figure out from a machining prospective is on engines with rolling lever valve gear, how in the world do you machine the curvatures on the rolling levers?
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Old 06-19-2013, 07:07:19 PM
stormlord5500 stormlord5500 is offline
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Default Re: Worthington twin tandem double acting gas engines

For some reason I cannot get the cross section drawing of the National to upload.
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Old 06-19-2013, 11:41:51 PM
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Default Re: Worthington twin tandem double acting gas engines

In 1972 I did a field job for the company I worked for to test a pipeline pig design we were working on. The test started at a pumping station just across the Oklahoma state line in Kansas, near Coffeyville, KS. on what was then the MishWish (sp?) pipeline. The pride of that pumping station was a magnificent engine they called a National. It was not as large looking as the one you show in your drawings, it was not pedistal mounted with ladders like you showed. It was down at "ground" level. It had a 14 ton flywheel that was 14 feet diameter and produced 200 hp at 200 RPM. I was already working on my first steam engine model so I was thoroughly impressed. Unfortunately I did not have a camera with me so I did not get any pictures. I have often wished I had gone back to document it. For some reason it never snapped it was a National Transit, I though there was a separate engine company called National that built it. How about it Oklahoma and Kansas oilfield engine guys, anyone know about that engine or know someone who does? I too would like to model that one.
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Old 06-20-2013, 06:44:27 AM
JSWithers JSWithers is offline
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Default Re: Worthington twin tandem double acting gas engines

As an FYI, we also have a 150hp Miller twin with compressors at Rollag that came from the same building as the 330 Worthington. That one is a single acting twin. Not owned by Rollag like the Snow or Worthington. Owned by the Withers family. It's in the process of reassembly.
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Old 06-20-2013, 07:11:49 PM
stormlord5500 stormlord5500 is offline
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Default Re: Worthington twin tandem double acting gas engines

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Originally Posted by jswithers View Post
As an FYI, we also have a 150hp Miller twin with compressors at Rollag that came from the same building as the 330 Worthington. That one is a single acting twin. Not owned by Rollag like the Snow or Worthington. Owned by the Withers family. It's in the process of reassembly.
I wish you guys well on your Miller. Is it like half of the 300 hp Miller at Coolspring?

---------- Post added at 07:08 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:01 PM ----------

I hope you can get what you need to build it. I am hoping someone can help me with my Worthington problem.

---------- Post added at 07:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:08 PM ----------

Ray I hope you can get what you need to build your model. I am sure someone knows something.
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Old 06-21-2013, 06:27:04 AM
JSWithers JSWithers is offline
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Default Re: Worthington twin tandem double acting gas engines

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I wish you guys well on your Miller. Is it like half of the 300 hp Miller at Coolspring?
I thought the Miller at Coolspring was a 200hp. But yes, it is the same only I think it has a valve cage and sideshaft conversion by National Transit so it doesn't look exactly the same. We do plan on getting it running someday. It is now inside a building, on a foundation, and the major parts assembled. Still a lot of "small" parts to assemble. I think my brother knows more about the conversion.
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Old 06-21-2013, 11:40:27 AM
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Default Re: Worthington twin tandem double acting gas engines

Your Miller was modified by National Transit? That's interesting

. I hope to get up to Rollag, Kinzers, and Coolspring one day. And Maybe Buckley when they get their twin tandem Snow going. Snow actually built four 5400hp twin tandems for a generating station in California. They also built some 3000 hp twin tandems for various power stations around the country. One of them went to the Georgia Railway and Power Company's station in Atlanta. The 5400's and the 3000's had different valve gear than the smaller Snows. They had push rods going to the rockers instead of the newer one-piece rockers. Pretty cool stuff. Here is a cylinder cut through drawing. I still can't get the Nat'l Trans one to upload.
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Old 06-21-2013, 03:18:47 PM
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Default Re: Worthington twin tandem double acting gas engines

Also I forgot to mention these early Snows had seperate cams for the intake and exhaust valves.
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