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Mopar Gurus Needed


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  #1  
Old 04-25-2019, 03:23:32 PM
Tracy T Tracy T is offline
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Default Mopar Gurus Needed

starter problem, new starter, new ring gear on torque converter and it still wants to skip every now and then. what the sam hill am i missing? is their some kind of adjustment on the starter itself? almost like the starter is spinning before it gets engaged. and no there is not a pilot bushing/ bearing stuck in the end of rhe crankshaft. 360 engine, 727 torqueflight transmission.

---------- Post added at 03:23:32 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:16:24 PM ----------

i think i just found the answer! is there a difference between automatic and standard transmission crankshafts? same casting numbers different part numbers!
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  #2  
Old 04-25-2019, 04:11:37 PM
Vanman Vanman is offline
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Default Re: mopar gurus needed

As I recall, certain engines did use a different crank between standard and auto.

Bear with my story.... And the fact that these memories are more than 20 years old.

My van came with a 318 and 727 trans. I then installed an A833 four speed overdrive trans. That was cool. But then I swapped out the 318 for a mildly hopped up 440. This required custom modification of an aftermarket flywheel housing as no stock housing could be found that fit that engine and trans together.

Man that was fun, but the engine wore that trans out. I then knew why I couldn't find that flywheel housing lol. So I wanted to go back to a Torqueflite, obviously the big block version, so it would bolt up to my engine.

This is where it got interesting. I wanted a trans with a torque converter clutch (lock up).

Also, my engine had a steel crank instead of cast. On the big block engines, cast cranks were externally balanced, steel internally balanced.

But Chrysler never made a big block 727 with lock up TC.

So I needed a lock up TC from an internally balanced small block. It turns out that the 318 was the ONLY such engine.

So a 318 lock up TC is what I used. Chrysler torque converters are furnace brazed from the factory and very durable, so I wasn't worried about this.

I had to put the small block internals in the big block case to get the input shaft and valve body for the lock up converter. I believe they were all the same. Just the housing is bigger where it mates to the engine.

So, the moral of the story, you need to make certain that you have the correct combination of crank and torque converter!

BTW, I love my Dodge Maxivan. I haven't been able to drive it in ages due to smog regs. It passes, but isn't approved. The trans is hopped up too, complete with a manual valve body. It shifts RIGHT NOW. Back in the day the van would give respectably quick cars a run for their money. MUCH to their owners' surprise!!

Keith
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Old 04-25-2019, 04:22:05 PM
Tracy T Tracy T is offline
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Default Re: mopar gurus needed

i havnt given up, just waiting for verification. i do have a plan B, and it does not include removal of engine or transmission!
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Old 04-25-2019, 05:56:01 PM
Chuck Woycke Chuck Woycke is offline
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Default Re: mopar gurus needed

my guess when you buy a new or rebuilt starter the starter flange or mounting that bolts to the bell housing are difference thickness you must shim up the starter to much the ring gear on rebuilt starters they mill the mounting to make sure its straight you must shim them up if you don't the starter gear will either crash into the ring gear or it will not engage all the way into the ring gear and skip some times
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Old 04-25-2019, 06:59:07 PM
cornbinder89 cornbinder89 is offline
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Default Re: mopar gurus needed

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck Woycke View Post
my guess when you buy a new or rebuilt starter the starter flange or mounting that bolts to the bell housing are difference thickness you must shim up the starter to much the ring gear on rebuilt starters they mill the mounting to make sure its straight you must shim them up if you don't the starter gear will either crash into the ring gear or it will not engage all the way into the ring gear and skip some times
That is a GM thing, Dodge don't get shimmed. Bellhousing should be check for concentric to crank, offset dowel pins are use to correct a mis alignment.
BTW As far as I know, The only difference in auto cranks vs. std cranks was at one point, somewhere in the late 60's they stopped drilling the back of the crank for a pilot bushing on auto cranks. I converted auto to std but it was an early engine (red engine, not a later blue engine). Early vs late cranks had different rear flange dimensions, late being bigger.
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Old 04-25-2019, 08:52:44 PM
Kothe Kothe is offline
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Default Re: mopar gurus needed

as I recall the crankshaft for the auto trans is not drilled for the pilot bushing of a manual trans , I remember pulling a few cranks and had them drilled for the pilot bearing
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Old 04-26-2019, 07:06:06 AM
Tracy T Tracy T is offline
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Default Re: mopar gurus needed

engine year is unknown, looks like someone put a reman in, it did however have the remains of a pilot bearing in the crankshaft which i removed. interesting note on offset dowel plns.
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Old 04-26-2019, 08:02:01 AM
Doug Tallman Doug Tallman is offline
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Default Re: mopar gurus needed

The pilot stub on the front of the converter has to go into the pilot hole in the back of the crank. I ran into a problem the opposite direction once but can't remember the engine size. We were swapping engines and the customer bought an engine from an automatic and we were putting it in a standard shift. The hole in the crank was too big for the pilot bearing. That's when we learned there was a difference in the pilot hole size in the crank between auto and standard. My problem was easy, just make a custom bushing. Going from standard to auto would have been a problem since the hole wouldn't have been big enough for the converter pilot.
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Old 04-26-2019, 08:39:03 AM
Tracy T Tracy T is offline
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Default Re: mopar gurus needed

i started the thing several times yesterday later in the evening and even unpluged the coil so it wouldnt start and it never did it again. so i dont know what happened, maybe something expanded when it warmed up and everything seated?
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Old 04-26-2019, 09:48:43 AM
cornbinder89 cornbinder89 is offline
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Default Re: mopar gurus needed

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Tallman View Post
The pilot stub on the front of the converter has to go into the pilot hole in the back of the crank. I ran into a problem the opposite direction once but can't remember the engine size. We were swapping engines and the customer bought an engine from an automatic and we were putting it in a standard shift. The hole in the crank was too big for the pilot bearing. That's when we learned there was a difference in the pilot hole size in the crank between auto and standard. My problem was easy, just make a custom bushing. Going from standard to auto would have been a problem since the hole wouldn't have been big enough for the converter pilot.
It has been a few years, but the way I remember, there is a ring on the flange that locates the flywheel or flexplate on the back of the flange, the inside of that ring is what the converter nose is located on, the std trans has a bushing inside the crank, further in than the ring.
IF Tracy T is using a late model flexplate on an early model crank, it will not be held concentric to the crank, as the bolt holes are not what is supposed to locate the plate, the ring on the flange is, or at least that is how I remember it.
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Old 04-26-2019, 10:08:18 AM
Doug Tallman Doug Tallman is offline
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Default Re: mopar gurus needed

The flex plate is centered by the flange. The converter is centered by the pilot in the back of the crank and confirms the centerline with the crank. You can't have a pilot bushing and the converter at the same time. They both go in the same basic pocket. Having the converter pilot snug in the crank is more critical than the flex plate mounting.

With the bell housing bolted together, there should have been a gap between the converter and the plate. Did the converter slide forward easy and go flat against the flex plate? Those are the critical things to look for.
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