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Onan Generator Set Controller replacement


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  #1  
Old 12-04-2009, 12:35:45 AM
pitpig pitpig is offline
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Question Onan Generator Set Controller replacement

After studying the pdf file on my "new to me" onan 30.0 dda, I find that most of the "control" system is missing.

QUESTION: Can I replace the complete control panel with a different(newer / other brand, etc.) controller.

OR, maybe an "old school" setup without the circuit boards
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  #2  
Old 12-04-2009, 12:51:23 AM
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Mikey4026 Mikey4026 is offline
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Default Re: Generator Set Controller replacement

I would install a DeepSea or Murphy controller.
The Deep Sea has many styles and types of generator controllers that can be adapted and installed on many types of equipment other than generators.
It's a pretty good and affordable product.
Deep Sea has been easier to set up and install for me than the Murphy.
I have used both Murphy and Deep Sea with good success.
I hope you still have a voltage regulator ?

http://www.fwmurphy.com/

http://www.deepseaplc.com/

Good luck with the project.
Mikey
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  #3  
Old 12-04-2009, 01:06:57 AM
Isaac-1 Isaac-1 is offline
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Default Re: Generator Set Controller replacement

Can you post a photo or two of the inside of your control box so we can see how extensive the problem is?

Ike

p.s. Does your unit have the 1 light or the 5 light controller?
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  #4  
Old 12-04-2009, 11:31:04 AM
pitpig pitpig is offline
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Default Re: Generator Set Controller replacement

Haven't got the picture thing down yet ... can email one though
Picture all the relays and circuit boards missing.

I have the 5 light panel
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  #5  
Old 12-04-2009, 11:37:57 AM
pitpig pitpig is offline
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Default Re: Generator Set Controller replacement

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikey4026 View Post
I would install a DeepSea or Murphy controller.

I hope you still have a voltage regulator ?


Good luck with the project.
Mikey

I don't think I have the voltage regulator either ......
If it was located behind the panel doors, It's not there
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  #6  
Old 12-04-2009, 11:47:46 AM
pitpig pitpig is offline
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Default Re: Generator Set Controller replacement

Showing my ignorance here but I was hoping the "Controller" controlled output of the generator too, in addition to engine monitering

Click image for larger version

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The attachment is a pic of the control panel. Hope it opens
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  #7  
Old 12-04-2009, 01:04:19 PM
Richard L Richard L is offline
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Default Re: Generator Set Controller replacement

The first thing I would do is see if the unit runs,check out the end to see if it is ok,and then address the control system which you can make as simple or as complicated as you want.Personally I try to keep away from all the bells and whistles,and stick with the basics,ie Murphy type shut down,basic metering,Basler reg,and mechanical govenors. That way you have a basic system you can work on if it craps out when you need it the most.
Re
Rick
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  #8  
Old 12-04-2009, 01:26:02 PM
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Talking Re: Generator Set Controller replacement

Looks like you had "Mickey and friends" living in your Control Box.....
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Bruce in alaska
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  #9  
Old 12-04-2009, 04:24:49 PM
pitpig pitpig is offline
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Default Re: Generator Set Controller replacement

yea, they sold the relays and circuit boards for magic beans
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  #10  
Old 12-04-2009, 04:54:02 PM
Isaac-1 Isaac-1 is offline
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Default Generator Set Controller replacement

Ok, looks to me like you are missing a some relays, the engine control circuit board, maybe the cycle cranker card (edge on in the photo above the starter solenoid), VR-21 voltage regulator, and probably all its related components (transformer, SCR's etc.). If you opt to back with the original controller board, FlightSystems makes an updated direct replacement for the controller board, I was the one major component I had to replace on our 125.0DYD. It sells for about $300 on the 5 light version, when I bought ours they were nice enough to discount the price a bit. As to the VR-21, you may want to upgrade to a VRAS 300-2280 voltage regulator, see the recent message thread about sensing transformer for a 30EK, Onan still sells the 2880 kits for about $700, they do show up much cheaper on ebay, etc. from time to time (I think I saw one sell for $125-150 a while back)

p.s. let me know if you decide to go with replacing the relays and the flight system board, I might be able to loan you the one out of our 125.0DYD for a day for testing (the Original Onan board is voltage specific, the Flight Systems replacement works on either 12/24 volts, and also has jumpers to match original Onan behavior depending on revision)

p.s. be aware there is a typo for the model number of the controller circuit board in the parts diagram. I don't remember exactly what is, either the 1 light and 5 light numbers are reversed, or the line number for the cycle cranker and the control board are reversed. Either way if you call Flight Systems and tell them its the 5 light version they should be able to get you the right replacement.

Ike
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  #11  
Old 12-05-2009, 12:31:14 AM
pitpig pitpig is offline
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Default Re: Generator Set Controller replacement

I sure would like to go back original, but it might be cost prohibitive.
Tomorrow I am going to test the stator and armature to make sure they are ok before I go any further. Got some clear shellac looking flakes (about 1/2" wide X 2" long)out of the generator when I stared the engine. Hope its not a bad omen.
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  #12  
Old 12-05-2009, 08:44:24 AM
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Default Re: Generator Set Controller replacement

I would first ensure that I have a good generator end and engine before sinking funds into this project.

First make sure you have a running engine, engine needs to run at 1800 rpm.

With a running engine, you can excite the generator end with 12VDC at which time it should make near nominal voltage (near rated output). I'd get a generator manual for this particular machine before proceeding with this as you will want to disconnect everything from the generator before proceeding with this.

If all checks out to this point, I'd get a Panel Source control panel (Davidson Sales (800)383-2073) and a voltage regulator from someone like Power Tronincs, Basler, think Flight Systems might even make them and you will be on your way.

Note that you will not get a voltage regulator in any of the control panels, the control panels being sort of generic but the regulators are a lot more specific to the generator end.

A Panel Source will have everything you need, gauges, CT's, meters, switches, all of it. ECU and DeepSea make a controller but lack gauges and meters. Think you can order the Panel Source with either a Deep Sea or a ECU controller already mounted, wired, ready to go.
Good luck with it.
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  #13  
Old 12-05-2009, 05:00:46 PM
George Clark George Clark is offline
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Default Re: Generator Set Controller replacement

You can contack ECU in washington state, give them your requirements, what you want in your controler, they can supply you with a complete controler that is simple to wire,you will have new senders for oil and water, but will be able to use your current safety switches, they make a very simple and reliable control.You will have to relocate your voltage regulator or replace it with another,your field resistance is 17 to 25 ohms so you will need one that works in that range. If you want to keep the box and just install a new engine controler they have a nice little 3x3 controler that you can easily mount and wire with std.safeties, you will need to install a magnetic pickup for overspeed and start disconnect features,other than that you can use all exhisting components,all depends on how much you want to spend.
geo
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  #14  
Old 12-06-2009, 12:14:41 AM
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Default Re: Generator Set Controller replacement

What do ya'll think about the ECU-9957N controller ????
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  #15  
Old 12-06-2009, 09:11:28 AM
Gunny Gunny is offline
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Default Re: Generator Set Controller replacement

I think that ECU makes an excellent product.
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  #16  
Old 12-06-2009, 03:24:21 PM
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Default Re: Generator Set Controller replacement

The 9957 ECU is a fine product. Never had a problem with any ECU I've installed. I like that its reasonably economical to purchase, and like the remote annunciation feautures as well, when using these in a commercial environment.

I have used, and like the 9907 too. It is virtually identical in function, however it uses a small AC signal for speed reference, if you don't want to fuss with putting in a magnetic pick up (MPU). It uses the 60 Hertz signal from the generator. I install them using the transformer (or equal) below:

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/items/3TZ65?Pid=search

I suppose between the transformer or a MPU, they are about equally priced, if you can find a good deal on a quality MPU.

It uses a really low level signal, and you don't want the secondary voltage to ever get above 15 volts. I put them in at the 120 volt connections, and I get 12.5~13 volts on the secondarys, and you need to strap one side to ground, or you may get erratic behavior out of the control.

What if the AC voltage fails?? Unit will sense that the engine failed to crank and will cease cranking/operating. (all the ECU's do this--no signal sensed at the MPU terminals, it stops and sets the overspeed and overcrank LED's on.)

eric
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  #17  
Old 12-06-2009, 04:13:30 PM
pitpig pitpig is offline
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Default Re: Generator Set Controller replacement

There is a 9957 on ebay for 99 bucks. Good price???
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  #18  
Old 12-06-2009, 07:06:12 PM
Isaac-1 Isaac-1 is offline
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Default Re: Generator Set Controller replacement

Be aware adding an MPU speed sensor is going to run another $75+ (maybe a little less for an ebay deal), plus drilling and taping a hole near the flywheel teeth. I added one to the DYD at work in order to fit an electronic governor in place of the original mechanical governor, I was lucky there was an unused cover plate that made drilling and taping the hole an easy job.

Ike
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Old 12-06-2009, 07:47:02 PM
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Default Re: Generator Set Controller replacement

Got a mechanical drive in the bell housing. At least I think there is one. Haven't taken the cap off to be 100%. But your right, I still have to get a signal generator.
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  #20  
Old 12-06-2009, 07:55:30 PM
Isaac-1 Isaac-1 is offline
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Default Re: Generator Set Controller replacement

The one in the bell housing is likely the over speed centrifugal switch.

Ike
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