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Generators & Electric Motors General Discussion Antique Generators and Old Electric Motors: Questions and answers about restoring and showing old power generation systems.

Generators & Electric Motors General Discussion

Porter Cable BSV550-W Model 185432 generator


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  #1  
Old 10-01-2011, 10:43:11 PM
Power Power is offline
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Default Porter Cable BSV550-W Model 185432 generator

Hi - just got this - where is correct place to post?
Missing exhaust system - stored outside, water got in exhaust.
Missing recoil starter housing
Missing fuel tank to fuel hose adapter
Missing portability kit - wheels & handles.

I downloaded operating manual & parts list, which does not show exhaust system!
Need source for missing parts.
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  #2  
Old 10-02-2011, 08:07:33 AM
armandh armandh is offline
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Default Re: Porter Cable BSV550-W Model 185432 generator

seems as if you have someones parts machine
someone who discovered using one for parts was cheaper

hopefully the engine will be a common one
but I would not count on it

B4 I knew better I got a Coleman 5KW with a 10 HP Tecumseh engine.
[thanks again John for fixing it]

typical 3600 rpm screamer with splash about oiling.

good thing I have a mostly unused 10 hp on a snow blower
I wonder if it could be my parts supplier?


the good news is I've acquired better generators
yours may have been disposed of as B.E.R.
[beyond economic repair]
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  #3  
Old 10-02-2011, 04:21:10 PM
K D Redd K D Redd is offline
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Default Re: Porter Cable BSV550-W Model 185432 generator

Post some picture so we can see what engine is on this unit.

Kent
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  #4  
Old 10-02-2011, 09:15:25 PM
Power Power is offline
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Default Re: Porter Cable BSV550-W Model 185432 generator

Perhaps it was. He says it is about 10 years old. Both B&S & Porter list most parts as available - at a VERY high price. He had it sitting outside along garage wall for 7 years - started project, never finished - then Irene came and he bought a gen - decided not to try to fix this one - I got it. I could use a gen, and see even used they sell for over $1,100, so I am interested.

Put mixture of ATF/penetrating oil down exhaust and in spark plug hole - let sit 24 hrs. I grabbed flange where recoil starter goes, started rotating forward & back - only tiny bit of movement at first. Now it rolls easily by hand. Put plug in - has compression - hard enough that I can't roll it thru. When I get it thru, the rag I put in exhaust pops up.
So - valves are openiing and closing, engine makes some kind of compression - how good - I do not know, since everything is oiled up.

---------- Post added at 09:15 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:04 PM ----------

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Post some picture so we can see what engine is on this unit.
I degreased engine, used shop vacuum on vents on gen. Will get pix up
It is a B&S Vanguard Commercial engine - Model 185432 Type 0271E1
9 HP OHV industrial.

Sitting outside, uncovered in weather for 7 years could have created a lot of issues, Some, such as winding insulation deterioratoon could make it uneconomical to repair.

Would like a wiring diagram so I can check gen before trying to fire engine.
It appears to be brushless, so I can't just disconnect F1 & F2 to prevent it from producing voltage. Would like to run it for a while and dry out windings before producing voltage.
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  #5  
Old 10-03-2011, 12:28:57 AM
Jim Rankin Jim Rankin is offline
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Default Re: Porter Cable BSV550-W Model 185432 generator

You may be able to use external heat on the generator windings as a first step to getting it dry enough to chance starting it. Getting it inside in a heated room is a good start. Then you could measure the insulation condition with a megger. If it's resistance is low, then worry about getting it dried out.

As far as the stator goes, you may be able to run DC power through the windings with a battery charger to warm it from the inside out. That's not going to help the rotor much other than building up some warmth around it, but the voltage in the field windings is not going to be as high as in the stator usually, so less danger of it shorting from dampness. You wll have to monitor the temperature of the coils to ensure they don't get too hot, but they should stand quite a bit of heat if it's anything built in the last 20 years.

Disassembly and baking in an oven is probably the most reliable way to dry this out.
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Old 10-03-2011, 01:24:44 AM
Power Power is offline
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Default Re: Porter Cable BSV550-W Model 185432 generator

Thank You - yes I agree- baking is best, but in this case, Jim I want to quickly find out what is messed up, and how much time and $ it will take to get it running right. The cost of parts is amazing. It could quickly become uneconomical to repair.

Since the neutral is bonded to the frame, my plan is to use an isolated autotransformer across the 240 volt windings, and limit the current to no more than 50 watts. This will induce a small voltage in the rotor, which might warm it a bit too. I would feel more comfortable with a wiring diagram, to make sure inducing AC in the rotor will not damage control circuitry, which seems to be inside the gen.
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Old 10-03-2011, 02:50:40 PM
Fred M. Fred M. is offline
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Default Re: Porter Cable BSV550-W Model 185432 generator

Power-

I searched for the wiring diagram but found only the same info you probably found. (The Clymer volume 2 manual has a schematic for a BSV800, but I don't think it relates.) I did find that there was both a type zero and a type one version. The type zero parts list has a capacitor listed and the type one parts list has diodes listed.

My impression is that the wiring is very simple. There is probably a rotor with two diodes for the field. The stator probably has one winding connected to the capacitor and two 120 VAC windings connected in series to feed both the 120 VAC outlets and the 240 VAC outlet.

Others may be able to verify that disconnecting the capacitor will prevent power from being generated.

You should be able to get info on the exhaust components from Briggs & Stratton. Perhaps your local lawnmower shop will have a suitable muffler.

Fred
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  #8  
Old 10-03-2011, 09:09:15 PM
Power Power is offline
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Default Re: Porter Cable BSV550-W Model 185432 generator

Here are some pictures. I intend to store this in an attached garage, and page 17 of instructions warns "never store gen with fuel in tank indoors or in enclosed areas.." I suspect this is because the plastic fuel tank is vapor permeable. Before plastic tanks came out, I worked for a company that was trying to make them less permeable so they could be used on cars stored in attached garages.
I do not like gravity feed fuel systems. If I get this working, I will figure out how to use a metal tank with a quick disconnect. Store gen in garage, tank outside in a garbage can.

Removed tank & heat shield for access.
Removed governor linkage guard and freed up governor, which was stiff. Springs look good.
Philips screws holding gen end cap on, and are stuck - tried penetrating oil and tapping screwdriver end with hammer. Do not want to force and damage slots. Will let sit overnight. Same for screws holding receptacle cover.
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  #9  
Old 10-03-2011, 09:45:46 PM
Power Power is offline
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Default Re: Porter Cable BSV550-W Model 185432 generator

More pictures. Since the pull starter is missing, I have to figure out which way engine turns. I plan to wrap a rope around hub, buy recoil starter & muffler only if it works. Opened up air cleaner housing, cleaned crankcase breather tube & housing. Air cleaner looks great. If this is a junker, maybe I can sell air cleaner on Ebay :ROTFL:

From what I can see thru vents, stator windings look good, no mice residue, which is surprising for 7 years outside.
Cleaned and silicone sprayed plug porcelain, plug wire, generator laminations, rubber mounts. Put engine oil in cylinder, worked crank back & forth and installed plug, blew oil out exhaust. Did this several times until oil came out clear, indicating rust and debris have been flushed out. I do not intend to pull the head unless gen works, and I need to.
Gen is for my 97 year old mom, who lives in an all electric house. It is in attached garage with a running dehumidifier next to it.

Next step - get cover off receptacle box, confirm no controls in there, wiring and connections are good, no rodent residue inside. Same for gen end cover. I suspect Fred is right - very simple voltage regulator - maybe a capacitor off stator. If I can disable exciter circuitry, and if there are diodes and or capacitor, isolate them, plan to do what Jim said, only use AC. Have yet to find the low oil switch - it must be burried near magneto. Want to check that. Because cyl wall was rusted & engine siezed, expect engine to burn lot of oil if or until rings reseat.
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  #10  
Old 10-04-2011, 08:03:31 AM
K D Redd K D Redd is offline
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Default Re: Porter Cable BSV550-W Model 185432 generator

The engine is a late model Briggs. In your fourth picture, the last one of the first four you posted, you can see the engine ID tag the is on the blower housing.

Kent
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  #11  
Old 10-04-2011, 04:01:10 PM
Ed Sparks Ed Sparks is offline
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Arrow Re: Porter Cable BSV550-W Model 185432 generator

Quote:
Originally Posted by Power View Post
gen works, and I need to.
Gen is for my 97 year old mom, who lives in an all electric house. It is in attached garage with a running dehumidifier next to it.
These gensets were sold heavily to the construction trade for job site usage and for temporary backup power. They were a pretty rugged unit, sold starting in the late 90's. I got one from the town dump [recycling center] two years ago that the owner had purchased and left it sitting for two years full of old gas. When the next storm came it wouldn't run so he bought a new one that day. It needed a complete carb rebuild and cleaning and that was all.
Sold it a few months later as I already had two of this size for my construction work. The 8500 watt surge rating is a little generous, but it will give 5 kw all day long.

Please do not use this genset in an attached garage for any reason. Carbon monoxide kills people every power outage.
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  #12  
Old 10-04-2011, 06:04:51 PM
Power Power is offline
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Default Re: Porter Cable BSV550-W Model 185432 generator

Hi, Ed - "store this in an attached garage,"
Never run near there. If it works, will set up like my Onan - 50 feet of cord.

---------- Post added at 06:04 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:45 PM ----------

K D -you can see the engine ID tag the is on the blower housing.
Yes, but cannot find anything on Briggs site with these #'s. Checked again today to make sure I got them right.
Model 185432
Type 0271E1
Code 06020649
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Old 10-04-2011, 06:25:37 PM
Power Power is offline
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Smile Re: Porter Cable BSV550-W Model 185432 generator

Lot of dissasembly required to get to the magneto. If there is a spark, leaving it alone. 1st pix is my timing light & rope on recoil starter hub. I looked at pix of unit, and from direction of pull, decided engine runs clockwise. Strong spark .
After soaking in penetrating oil overnight, the gen end cap screws and outlet box cover screws came out. Outlet box will be fine with some cleaning. Never saw a unit grounded thru the outlet frame that way.
Generator has diodes in rotor, rusty capacitor on a stator winding, with electrical tape around terminals. Someone has been here before - I doubt Porter C. would have wrapped in tape.
Windings have lot of concrete dust, so I made an exception to my rule and washed generator internals. Sealed bearing looks good - no grease leakage - leave alone. Back next to the dehumidifier to dry out, If looks dry, intend to put AC power in coils tomorrow.

I do not like gravity gasoline feed. Trying to figure out how to run a small pump and use a steel outboard motor tank on the ground, lower than carb.
Contractor unit = no 12 volt circuitry, no place to put a mechanical pump on Briggs.
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  #14  
Old 10-04-2011, 06:43:29 PM
K D Redd K D Redd is offline
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Default Re: Porter Cable BSV550-W Model 185432 generator

For a fuel pump, you can use a VACUUM PULSE fuel pump. Installing a hose barb in the valve cover to access the pressure/vacuum pulse in the engines crankcase will work a Vacuum Pulse pump. These pumps are used on MANY riding lawn mowers. The engine may be a GENERAC engine. They look a lot like a Briggs engine. Also are you sure the engine's Model number is 185432? Try 195432.

Kent
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Old 10-04-2011, 07:00:23 PM
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Default Re: Porter Cable BSV550-W Model 185432 generator

I zoomed 1st pix - you can see B&S and model # is an 8
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Old 10-04-2011, 11:41:31 PM
Power Power is offline
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Default Re: Porter Cable BSV550-W Model 185432 generator

Fred M. "My impression is that the wiring is very simple. There is probably a rotor with two diodes for the field. The stator probably has one winding connected to the capacitor and two 120 VAC windings connected in series to feed both the 120 VAC outlets and the 240 VAC outlet."

exactly what it is!
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Old 10-06-2011, 07:04:42 PM
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Default Re: Porter Cable BSV550-W Model 185432 generator

Looks like someone lost the mate to the metric screw on the right and substituted oversize self drilling screw!!! I will try to helicoil to correct size and thread.
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  #18  
Old 10-10-2011, 12:18:17 PM
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Default Re: Porter Cable BSV550-W Model 185432 generator

Per picture, on bottom of carb fuel bowl there is a tiny hose barb. Above it is a spring loaded needle valve. Purpose? Carb bowl drain or more?
Wish I had B&S oper manual.
Thank you
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Old 10-10-2011, 02:29:05 PM
Fred M. Fred M. is offline
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Default Re: Porter Cable BSV550-W Model 185432 generator

Power-

Carb Bowl Drain is the obvious answer. However I think I remember a small Honda generator that used it as a way to drain the gas out of the gas tank.

Of course that gas tank was not very big, and getting to the fuel line would have required some disassembly.

Fred
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Old 11-09-2011, 10:17:52 PM
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Default Re: Porter Cable BSV550-W Model 185432 generator

Well, now that we have cleaned up from the storm, time to get back to the generator. Fortunately, we did not loose power, tho some nearby did for as long as 7 days.

With the exhaust valve freed up, the engine has good compression. The carb had very little debris in the bowl, is otherwise clean - no need to dissasemble. The choke and throttle were cleaned and lubed with dry teflon, work, governor linkage was cleaned and lubed, is free, good spark from the mag. Repaired the stop/start switch, cleaned all connections and tested with a battery powered test lamp. Want to make sure stop switch works in case I need to stop engine fast. That spark looks too hot to be pulling the plug wire

Bought a new B&S recoil starter and installed. Generator has been cleaned, as were all connections in electrical panel. Capacitor is on workbench, and all gen wires disconnected for engine testing.
No muffler - Ear Protectors

Started right upon choke. Lots of smoke, orange and red flames out of stub exhaust. Going north of 4000 RPM - grabbed throttle arm and pulled it back to about 1000 RPM (just below black cover plate in picture) let it run a few minutes. Nice blue flame out of stub pipe, engine runs good. As you can see in the picture, the spring is in the least tension holes. Going to back off the low speed manual throttle lever screw on bottom left of picture and try again.

Restarted with manual throttle stop screw backed out and manual throttle at minimum. Wants to go about 4000 RPM! Unhooked the spring to the manual throttle lever in the picture. idles at about 500 rpm. Let it run about 2 minutes clipped the spring on engine so it ran about 1000 RPM, let it run 10 min, then 1500 RPM 10 min, then 2000 10 min, 2500 and 3000 RPM. Very little blowby out of breather hose coming out of valve cover -( lower right in picture) Hopefully, rings are on the way to reseating. Time to check engine.

No leaks, nothing overheating, oil is warm and clean, at same level, gen bearing is cool
Installing capacitor, connecting wires and installing end cover on Gen. Nest test with freq meter and voltmeter.

---------- Post added at 09:17 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:00 PM ----------

That is interesting - apparently the picture is too close to the 4th one I posted on 10-3, and I am not allowed to post it. They are very close, you can look at that pix to see spring, governor arm and screw I backed out.
My Onan muffler has a 1" NPT pipe connection. It will barely fit over exhaust stub. I will borrow it for next test.
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