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Lighting Fixtures, Switch Panels and Meters Antique lighting fixtures, bulbs, switches, meters and controls.

Lighting Fixtures, Switch Panels and Meters

Lister Bruston Automatic Electric Lighting Plant Renovation question


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  #1  
Old 01-22-2016, 04:06:50 PM
Jensma Jensma is offline
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Default Lister Bruston Automatic Electric Lighting Plant Renovation question

Windings on coils inside the differential relay and other have been insulated by probably shellac over a century ago.
Recently we started renovating our Lister Bruston to its original operating state, soon also the electrical part.
First some answers on questions we have. This question is about what we can expect about the quality of the wire insulation after more then a century.
You can find our restoration info on:http://meijermuseum.nl/onze-motoren/...ion-challenge/
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Old 01-22-2016, 05:19:19 PM
George Andreasen George Andreasen is offline
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Default Re: Lister Bruston automatic electric lighting plant renovation question

Are you asking for an opinion? Advice?

Handle any wiring very gently as the insulation is probably cloth covered rubber and quite brittle. As long as it's not roughly treated it should stay in one piece.

Judging by the first photo, the wiring insulation looks to be in very good shape. If you can carefully disconnect both ends of the coil, use a ohm meter and check for any stray path to ground. If there are no problems, you might consider coating the outside of the coil with any number of electrical varnishes on the market, or even a fresh coat of shellac. After thoroughly drying, just reconnect everything and it should be good for another 100 years or so.
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Old 01-25-2016, 09:40:57 PM
Jeff Brochu Jeff Brochu is offline
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Default Re: Lister Bruston automatic electric lighting plant renovation question

The images do appear to show the insulation to be in good shape. After checking the resistance of the coil to verify that it is still electrically continuos, you may want to use an insulation tester (often called a Megger, though it is a brand name) to test the quality of the insulation in a non-destructive way. The meter will give you a reading of the amount of leakage current without putting full current through your coil and "seeing" the week points in your insulation in the form of "sparks" when your coil self destructs, if the insulation is less then sufficient. Just be sure to follow all the safety instructions that are provided with the insulation meter.
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Old 01-27-2016, 09:11:26 AM
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GeneratorGus GeneratorGus is offline
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Default Re: Lister Bruston automatic electric lighting plant renovation question

I have what appears to be the same light plant in in the 10HP twin cyl. direct connected version.
It was a difficult restoration, but I can say the electrics were very well made and the wiring, as old as it is, was in quite good condition. All of the electric devices were disassembled and cleaned, and are operational. Except the device on the lower left of the main panel which I believe to be the charging regulator, you can see the the top piece on mine is missing as is the fuse above. The glass enclosures on mine are not original as the original enclosures were also missing.
I finally know what they look like. I'll add that the electro-mechanical devices are truly unique and fascinating to see in operation.

Also mine has what I believe is a power outlet in between the two brass toggle switches.

I was quite pleased to get the cover of Gas Engine Magazine in March of 2001. I believe you can access the story on line.

Your light plant appears to be in excellent condition and is quite complete, and should be no trouble to get running. I would not be at all surprised if it is functional as is

If I can be of any help, please feel free to contact me.

GUS
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Last edited by GeneratorGus; 01-27-2016 at 09:28:20 AM.
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Old 01-27-2016, 10:19:33 AM
Frank DeWitt Frank DeWitt is offline
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Default Re: Lister Bruston automatic electric lighting plant renovation question

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Originally Posted by GeneratorGus View Post
I have what appears to be the same light plant in in the 10HP twin cyl. direct connected version.

GUS
Very nice!

Does your plant get out to any shows? I would like to see it run.

Frank
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Old 01-28-2016, 08:16:09 AM
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Default Re: Lister Bruston automatic electric lighting plant renovation question

Hi Frank,
The plant was on my show trailer for two seasons, probably starting the summer of 2001. It is very heavy and pretty hard to move around. It involves jacks, timbers and rollers to get it on or off the trailer by myself. It took the better part of a day to move it out in my yard for it's debut and pictures. Sorry to say it hasn't been run since then. Maybe it's time, but not this year, as the trailer has already been reserved for another rare bird.
I mostly keep to shows in the eastern part of PA, but always make a hermitage to Coolspring twice a year.

I'll just add this about the plant because I've always been very amused by it. On the main panel lower right, the large solenoid coil linked to the brass mechanism below serves only to push the toggle switch below it to the off position. The brass mechanism is an electro magnetic speed control to slow the action of the solenoid. A lot of stuff to simply turn a switch off.

GUS

Last edited by GeneratorGus; 01-28-2016 at 08:38:34 AM.
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Old 01-28-2016, 09:16:31 AM
Frank DeWitt Frank DeWitt is offline
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Default Re: Lister Bruston automatic electric lighting plant renovation question

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Hi Frank,
The plant was on my show trailer for two seasons, probably starting the summer of 2001.

GUS
I will see you and some other generator at Coolsprings. I also go to R&T What other eastern PA shows am I missing? I need more shows. Grin
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Old 01-30-2016, 08:26:12 AM
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Default Re: Lister Bruston automatic electric lighting plant renovation question

Frank, Jacktown, and Loyalsock plus a bunch of smaller shows, you just don't know what's going to show up.
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Old 03-14-2016, 03:35:37 PM
Jensma Jensma is offline
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Default Re: Lister Bruston automatic electric lighting plant renovation question

GeneratorGus,

Thanks for offering assistance. I see that from your first image wires lead to Switchboard, Controller, Dynamo, Solenoid and Valve Lifter and your system does work!!! I would be very pleased if you can let me know where the following points connect to:
Switchboard-Magnetic Governor ..A.., Controller-ARM, Dynamo A(Rotor&Field), B(Rotor), C(Field), Valve Lifter (2 points) and finally Solenoid (2 points). See for details the attachments. All comments are welcome! For full details of the restoration see http://meijermuseum.nl/onze-motoren/...ion-challenge/ Thanks!
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Old 03-14-2016, 10:11:34 PM
t6299fm t6299fm is offline
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Default Re: Lister Bruston automatic electric lighting plant renovation question

Verify that it is not grounded and is continuous. Then build yourself a tank that will withstand vacuum. Put the unit in the tank. Cover it with insulating varnish. Put the top on the tank and pull it down to 30 in vacuum and hold for 30 minutes. Break the vacuum and wait 24 hours. Remove the coils and let drip and gently wipe off the drools. Let dry. I did this with my Edison Bipolar and she checks at over 10 meg ohms and 10 meg ant gonna smoke at 125 volts.
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Old 03-21-2016, 07:17:10 AM
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Default Re: Lister Bruston automatic electric lighting plant renovation question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jensma View Post
GeneratorGus,

Thanks for offering assistance. I see that from your first image wires lead to Switchboard, Controller, Dynamo, Solenoid and Valve Lifter and your system does work!!! I would be very pleased if you can let me know where the following points connect to:
Switchboard-Magnetic Governor ..A.., Controller-ARM, Dynamo A(Rotor&Field), B(Rotor), C(Field), Valve Lifter (2 points) and finally Solenoid (2 points). See for details the attachments. All comments are welcome! For full details of the restoration see http://meijermuseum.nl/onze-motoren/...ion-challenge/ Thanks!
Jesma,

I just saw your post here. Although I'm on the computer every day, I don't check all of the forums I normally visit on a daily basis. Sorry for not replying sooner.

In answer to your question, the wires connecting the two panels and generator on my genset were cut and although I got everything but the charging regulator functional, I was never able to figure out the entire puzzle and the three were never all wired together. I did not want to burn something up.
I run the generator with a small panel I rigged.

Your restoration efforts will, hopefullly, guide me to finally finish the job. You've given me a renewed interest in the old girl.
Please keep in mind that I'm a carpentry contractor with a very strong interest in “playing” with old electrical equipment.

Please continue your quest, maybe you'll find the answers I was unable to unlock at the time.

GUS
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Old 06-25-2016, 04:36:04 AM
Jensma Jensma is offline
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Default Re: Lister Bruston automatic electric lighting plant renovation question

GeneratorGus,

We continued working on our Lister Bruston and I will add an update to our findings sofar, hope it helps you in your work. I think we made good progress and after the summer break we will test the system as described in attached document. I will keep this thread posted. More details on our webside.
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