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FM 1929 ZC, help setting up throttle gov system please


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  #1  
Old 02-02-2005, 04:10:17 AM
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Question FM 1929 ZC, help setting up throttle gov system please

I am doing the initial set-up of a ZC, 3hp/800rpm. When I bought it the governor system was in a box and broken.

I would sure appreciate some help setting it up.

ALL questions are about the engine while it is NOT running.


First; when disconnected from the linkage, the butterfly should be held OPEN by the spring? Right?(when I got it it was being held CLOSED by the spring) what is correct?

Second, (assuming I have the first part right)

When assembled, the external handle that ajusts the tension on the governor, the speed ajustment lever, when I move it from one end setting to the other the butterfly closes a portion at a time, at one end setting it is open, at the other end setting it is nearly all the way closed, is this correct? (I cant see how the governor would have any effect on it if it is closed already?)

Also, the gear and governor "unit" slides about 1/8 + inch back and forth inside, that supposed to have play in it?

I appreciate any and all advice and opinions, Im new to these engines and have no local resource.
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Old 02-02-2005, 07:55:24 AM
RHudson RHudson is offline
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Default Re: FM 1929 ZC, help setting up throttle gov system please

i wonder how your engine and a zc-118 might be similiar? if so i might can be of help. first off i found that my throttle linkage was suppost to have an offset bend in it. someome had straightened it so as to make it too long, making it hold the throttle plate "closed" over center at low rpms. the effect was to make the throttle plate to "open" as the engine increased in rpm. anyway. if you think the engines are similiar i can send pictures.
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Old 02-02-2005, 10:53:51 AM
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Default Re: FM 1929 ZC, help setting up throttle gov system please

After looking at the couple of sites I could find with a 118, I must say that I cant really tell if they are set up the same?

Can you tell me, is there a spring, like one might find an auto carborator, attached to the throttle rod, along the side? Is that supposed to be there? I see one on an pic once a while, but does not have one...

If you remove the throttle linkage, will the butterfly snap shut? or open? In other words, the small coil spring on the butterfly, hold open or closed?

Thanks!
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Old 02-02-2005, 08:14:20 PM
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Default Re: FM 1929 ZC, help setting up throttle gov system please

Hello,
i have some pictures, later tonight i will try to find them and post or email. my carb has a coiled spring on the throttle shaft that actually made the throttle plate go past full open and start to close the plate (toward the front of the engine). the adjustable throttle rod (threaded rod end) from the governor holds the throttle plate to full open when the engine is not running, and closes it as rpms rise. (my thoughts, and others from what i have read on the net, was that the governor was acting opposite what it should. but by examing the throttle rod and finding the straightened offset it was clear that the rod was holding the throttle plate over center or closing the plate past full open. when a new rod was made and adjusted to hold full throttle at o rpm the governor acted as it should. (boy a picture is worth a thousand word.) my engine is an oil field so the throttle or rpm adjuster is not as complicated as others. it has basically a notched governor arm with a tension spring sitting in one of the notches. i've got too many computers will switch to the one with the pictures later tongiht.
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Old 02-02-2005, 09:32:00 PM
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Default Re: FM 1929 ZC, help setting up throttle gov system please

i may have the resolution too low. but i'll try this. the first photo is showing the 118 with engine at 0 rpm, throttle plate full open (plate vertical, although the bellcrank is at an angle to the horizontal) the bellcrank will rotate clockwise as the engine rpm rise and the governor pulls the plate closed.

the second photo shows the notched governor arm with throttle rod (black). a tension spring pulls the arm forward. as rpm rise, the flyballs will rotate the arm toward the crankshaft or rear of the engine, pulling against the tension spring. there by closing the throttle plate.

i believe that the non-oil field engines have the governor spring mounted on the end of a manually set pull knob so that the spring may be tensioned by setting the knob. thus giving various enine rpms. (i am guessing at this because, as you have noted, there appears to be very few pictures of this detail, seems for such a modern engine little information is available to a beginner like me.) again this is accomplished on the oil field by moving the spring on the governor arm either towards the end of the arm to raise the rpms or toward the pivot to lower the rpms.


hope this may be of some little help.
Attached Thumbnails
fbm throttle.JPG   FBm govlink.JPG  
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Old 02-03-2005, 12:44:20 AM
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Default Re: FM 1929 ZC, help setting up throttle gov system please

Well, first thanks so much for helping! The ZC is a bit different, but I am going to use what you said, plus the photos (thanks for them, too) and see if I can make the ZC work like your 118. I

If anyone out there knows the Fairbanks Morse ZC system, speak up, so I don't do the wrong thing!
My engine does not have a return spring on the rod, but I can add one! It also does not have an adjustment on the end of the rod, but, again, that sounds like a good idea.

So, while off, the butterfly is held full open with the spring on the rod, then as RPM increases, the movement of the weights causes the butterfly to close.

That how it works?

Thanks!!
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Old 02-03-2005, 11:20:02 AM
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Elden DuRand Elden DuRand is offline
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Default Re: FM 1929 ZC, help setting up throttle gov system please

I have a later model (1954 or so) ZC-52 (closed crankcase 3 HP) but it will serve as an example.

This is the one with the speed adjuster quadrant on the crankcase cover. Inside the cover is a flat spring that puts more or less pressure on the governor rod to regulate the speed at which the governor starts to close the throttle.

On other models of my engine, there's no adjustment on the crankcase cover (the undrilled shaft boss and the quadrant are still there). On this variation, there's a boss on the side of the cylinder where a flat arm pivots. Hooked to this flat arm is a coil tension spring that works against the throttle shaft to adjust the speed.

Briefly, with the throttle rod off. the butterfly should be held wide open by the torsion spring that is wound around the throttle shaft on the mixer. It is possible for this spring to be missing or hooked up backwards. If the spring holds the throttle closed, it's wrong.

With the throttle rod connected and the engine stopped, the throttle should still be wide open. As engine speed increases, the governor weights, against the pressure of the governor spring (and others) put increasing pressure on the shaft to close the throttle. At some point, the governor force exceeds the spring force working against it to make the throttle close enough to hold the speed constant.

As speed tries to increase past this point of equlibrium, governor force is greater than spring force and the throttle is forced toward the closed position. When speed decreases, the opposite happens and the throttle is forced more open.

Now, if you're totally confused, I've done my job......

By the way, the parts you may need to get your engine running right are available from more than one of Harry's sponsors. You can fiddle around with home-made springs but you'll have an easier time of it by getting the right ones from the start.

Take care - Elden
http://home.cybertron.com/~edurand
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Old 02-03-2005, 01:18:28 PM
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Default Re: FM 1929 ZC, help setting up throttle gov system please

Thanks to both of you!

I believe this engine is very much like mine, as I have the adjuster on the crankcase, as you do.

What I am hearing is that there is only the one spring, the one on the throttle shaft...NOT another one on the throttle rod, like an automotive carb return spring. The spring on the mixer shaft holds the throttle open at all times, its the governor pushing on the shaft/rod thad closes it? Right?

Now, if I am ok here, please tell me, when properly assembled when I move the adjuster on the crankcase from one side to the other, should I see the butterfly go from open to close? Or should it look the same at each setting?

Thanks again!!
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Old 02-04-2005, 10:56:40 AM
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Default Re: FM 1929 ZC, help setting up throttle gov system please

Quote:
Originally Posted by packrat56
Thanks to both of you!

What I am hearing is that there is only the one spring, the one on the throttle shaft...NOT another one on the throttle rod, like an automotive carb return spring. The spring on the mixer shaft holds the throttle open at all times, its the governor pushing on the shaft/rod thad closes it? Right?

Now, if I am ok here, please tell me, when properly assembled when I move the adjuster on the crankcase from one side to the other, should I see the butterfly go from open to close? Or should it look the same at each setting?
You are correct. There is no other (external) spring on your type engine except the torsion spring around the throttle shaft.

Since I've modified my engine's governor to run slow, I can't tell you with certainty, but I think that on an unmodified governor, the throttle should not move from wide open when you adjust the speed control with the engine stopped.

I ground a couple of turns off of the governor compression spring inside the flyweight shaft to make my engine run slow. At the slowest setting with my engine stopped, the throttle closes most of the way. At this setting, there is no governor action but, at any higher setting, the governor works normally. With the spring modified, the maximum speed of my engine is around 550 RPM.

Fast enough for life in the slow lane!

Take care - Elden
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Old 02-07-2005, 10:26:40 AM
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Default One more question, please..

One more question, if I can:

Should the shaft the governor weights pushes on, the short one, protrude past the weights toward the outside of the case, so that the speed control lever rubs on the end of the shaft, or does it rub on the little forks on the weights?
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