Antique Engines and Old Iron
[Home] - [HELP] - [Forums] - [Articles] - [Photo Gallery] - [Groups] - [Chat] - [Classified Ads] - [Subscribe] - [Links] - [Books] - [Sponsors] - [eBay Tools]

Go Back   SmokStak > SmokStak® Antique Engine Community > Antique Gas Engine Discussion
Forgot Password? Join Us!

Notices

Antique Gas Engine Discussion Meet collectors of hit and miss engines, ask questions about collecting, restoring and showing antique flywheel engines.

Antique Gas Engine Discussion

Fairbanks T Questions


this thread has 17 replies and has been viewed 2256 times

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 02-25-2005, 11:17:53 AM
Larry K Larry K is offline
Registered-III
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Hereford, Arizona USA
Posts: 408
Thanks: 257
Thanked 66 Times in 34 Posts
Question Fairbanks T Questions

Does anyone have a close-up view how the ignitor and pawls are situated on a Fairbanks T engine?

Secondly, if a rod dip system is employed, would one drill a hole in the rod so the oil could reach the bearing?

The engine I have has the "oil pump" but I an unable to unclog the hole in the crank without removing the outer cover and flywheel. The flywheel is seized and I would rather not try to remove it.

Thanks.

Larry Kastens
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old 02-25-2005, 03:04:23 PM
Daniel Dorece Daniel Dorece is offline
Registered-III
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Kenosha,WI In the little house marked ROVER
Posts: 1,389
Thanks: 276
Thanked 712 Times in 219 Posts
Default Re: Fairbanks T Questions

The FM T engines use four different igniters so first you need to figure out which one you have.
Dan
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 02-25-2005, 03:24:35 PM
Larry K Larry K is offline
Registered-III
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Hereford, Arizona USA
Posts: 408
Thanks: 257
Thanked 66 Times in 34 Posts
Question Re: Fairbanks T Questions

My 1915 four horsepower T is missing the ignitor. I have the mechanism with the pawl (sliding part) but not the ignitor. I thought I had the ignitor but it isn't there, so I will probably have to make one.

Thanks.

Larry Kastens
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 02-25-2005, 07:21:11 PM
Dick Welty Dick Welty is offline
Registered-III
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Temecula, California USA
Posts: 267
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Images: 4
Default Re: Fairbanks T Questions

Larry,

I have read here on this forum and elsewhere that the Faribanks Morse T is the same as the Jack of all trades only it is on a cast iron base instead of skids or cart.

At anyrate here is a picture I just took of the igniter on my 1910 2hp Jack Of All Trades.

Dick
Attached Thumbnails
MVC-397S.JPG  
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 02-25-2005, 07:32:15 PM
Dick Brown Dick Brown is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Gilbertsville, Kentucky
Posts: 457
Thanks: 3,352
Thanked 535 Times in 216 Posts
Default Re: Fairbanks T Questions

I have several of the model H horizontal jack of all trades and the vertical T engines. on mine all the ignitors will inter change.
hope this will help.
Dick
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 02-25-2005, 07:43:42 PM
Larry K Larry K is offline
Registered-III
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Hereford, Arizona USA
Posts: 408
Thanks: 257
Thanked 66 Times in 34 Posts
Smile Re: Fairbanks T Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Welty
Larry,

I have read here on this forum and elsewhere that the Faribanks Morse T is the same as the Jack of all trades only it is on a cast iron base instead of skids or cart.

At anyrate here is a picture I just took of the igniter on my 1910 2hp Jack Of All Trades.

Dick
Thanks Dick and to the others who responded. I feel quite stupid as I found my ignitor soaking in a can of Kroil. It just goes to show that when a person doesn't get back to the project for a few months, his memory isn't perfect. However, I do appreciate the picture because it is the ignitor that I have and it shows how everything should be attached. Thanks and many Thanks to Harry for this site.

Larry Kastens
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 02-25-2005, 07:43:57 PM
Patrick M Livingstone's Avatar
Patrick M Livingstone Patrick M Livingstone is offline
Registered-III
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 1,738
Thanks: 3,864
Thanked 4,323 Times in 932 Posts
Images: 4
Default Re: Fairbanks T Questions

This ignitor and trip is on a 1907 3hp engine.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 02-25-2005, 07:45:14 PM
John Hammink's Avatar
John Hammink John Hammink is offline
In Memory Of
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Anna Paulowna, The Netherlands
Posts: 348
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Images: 13
Default Re: Fairbanks T Questions

An engine friend of me has this 2 hp 1902 FM. It has both an igniter and the hot tube.
Attached Thumbnails
1902FM.jpg  
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 02-25-2005, 11:25:48 PM
Dick Welty Dick Welty is offline
Registered-III
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Temecula, California USA
Posts: 267
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Images: 4
Default Re: Fairbanks T Questions

Larry,

Isn't it funny that while all three igniters are very similar all three trips are quite different.

Dick
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 02-26-2005, 06:21:26 AM
Ralph Leonard Ralph Leonard is offline
Registered-III
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Salisbury, North Carolina USA
Posts: 257
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default Re: Fairbanks T Questions

Dick, What is the oiler on left for? My 1905 don't have one
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 02-26-2005, 11:28:30 AM
Elden DuRand's Avatar
Elden DuRand Elden DuRand is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Port St. Joe, Florida USA
Posts: 6,901
Thanks: 10,499
Thanked 6,178 Times in 2,456 Posts
Images: 6
Default Re: Fairbanks T Questions

This is a not-too-good blowup of a photo of the ignitor on my 1897 2-HP Jack of All Trades.

If you want to see more about this engine, go to:

http://home.cybertron.com/~edurand/F...-M%20Jack.html

Or the whole junky mess:

http://home.cybertron.com/~edurand

Take care - Elden
Attached Thumbnails
01-05-04b.JPG  
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 02-26-2005, 04:48:29 PM
Dwight Vivas Dwight Vivas is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Matoaca, Virginia, USA
Posts: 264
Thanks: 2,601
Thanked 299 Times in 109 Posts
Default Re: Fairbanks T Questions

Hi Elden,
Great job on the Jack of all Trades !
Hope you're gonna bring it to Coolspring in June, their feature engine is
Fairbanks Morse. Don't worry about the flywheel, it look good just standing still.
Dwight Vivas
Matoaca, VA.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 02-26-2005, 10:38:49 PM
Dick Welty Dick Welty is offline
Registered-III
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Temecula, California USA
Posts: 267
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Images: 4
Default Re: Fairbanks T Questions

Ralph,

I just went out to look at my engine to see what the second oiler is for and saw that it is connected by a bracket that looks made up (not original) a 1/4" copper tube connects the oiler to a hole near the bottom of the side cover below the main bearing on the igniter side. I have not worked on this engine and have only had it a short time.

I never knew that it wasn't original as I have no manuals for this engine. Since it is lower than the main bearing I think that someone may have installed it to maintain an adequate oil level in the crankcase

NOTE:Edited 2-28-05 I just removed the screened crank case cover and looked into the crankcase. I saw that there is no oil pump in my engine. There is however a flat disk about the size of a 1 lb coffee can lid connected to the crank with a screw. This disk has a hole in the center that the crank goes through. The disk is very close to the inside of the igniter side crank shaft bearing plate. this disk has about a 1/4" cupped flange around its circumfrence. It appears that any oil that comes from the second oiler is probably slung by this disk around the inside of the crank case. I don't know why this is necessary as the connecting rod bearing cap splashes oil from the bottom of the crank case.

The next time I comunicate with the prior owner I'll ask him if he installed it and if so why?

I notice that there are 2 large crankcase ventilation cutouts covered with screen that might blow oil out of the crankcase at a rate faster than the main oiler can restore it seeing that the main oiler has to libricate the piston and maybe the wristpin before it falls into the crankcase.

Maybe some one else has a better answer.

Dick

Last edited by Dick Welty; 03-01-2005 at 02:57:17 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 02-27-2005, 10:50:45 AM
Elden DuRand's Avatar
Elden DuRand Elden DuRand is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Port St. Joe, Florida USA
Posts: 6,901
Thanks: 10,499
Thanked 6,178 Times in 2,456 Posts
Images: 6
Default Re: Fairbanks T Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dwight Vivas
Hi Elden,
Great job on the Jack of all Trades !
Hope you're gonna bring it to Coolspring in June, their feature engine is
Fairbanks Morse. Don't worry about the flywheel, it look good just standing still.
Dwight Vivas
Matoaca, VA.
Dwight:

Thanks for the comments. Although I could show it just standing there, I like to show running engines. I -think- I have a good flywheel located but am not sure about transportation yet.

Once I get a good wheel on it, I may take it to some shows although the butt-buggy is a LOT of fun and I get to move around and see other folks' stuff and talk to 'em.

Coolspring sounds good but I'm not sure I can make that one.

Again, thanks and take care - Elden
http://home.cybertron.com/~edurand
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 02-27-2005, 05:40:00 PM
James Elenbaas James Elenbaas is offline
Registered-I
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Washington USA
Posts: 5
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default Re: Fairbanks T Questions

In Larry's initial post he mentioned a "Oil Pump". I have a 1907 9 hp and 1910 4 hp and neither of these have a oil pump. Is this something that was added by Fairbanks Morse at a later date? How is it activated.?
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 04-03-2005, 09:12:36 PM
Larry K Larry K is offline
Registered-III
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Hereford, Arizona USA
Posts: 408
Thanks: 257
Thanked 66 Times in 34 Posts
Default Re: Fairbanks T Questions

[QUOTE=Dick Welty]Ralph,

I just went out to look at my engine to see what the second oiler is for and saw that it is connected by a bracket that looks made up (not original) a 1/4" copper tube connects the oiler to a hole near the bottom of the side cover below the main bearing on the igniter side. I have not worked on this engine and have only had it a short time.

I never knew that it wasn't original as I have no manuals for this engine. Since it is lower than the main bearing I think that someone may have installed it to maintain an adequate oil level in the crankcase

NOTE:Edited 2-28-05 I just removed the screened crank case cover and looked into the crankcase. I saw that there is no oil pump in my engine. There is however a flat disk about the size of a 1 lb coffee can lid connected to the crank with a screw. This disk has a hole in the center that the crank goes through. The disk is very close to the inside of the igniter side crank shaft bearing plate. this disk has about a 1/4" cupped flange around its circumfrence. It appears that any oil that comes from the second oiler is probably slung by this disk around the inside of the crank case. I don't know why this is necessary as the connecting rod bearing cap splashes oil from the bottom of the crank case.

The next time I comunicate with the prior owner I'll ask him if he installed it and if so why?

I notice that there are 2 large crankcase ventilation cutouts covered with screen that might blow oil out of the crankcase at a rate faster than the main oiler can restore it seeing that the main oiler has to libricate the piston and maybe the wristpin before it falls into the crankcase.

Maybe some one else has a better answer.

___
I have learned that what you describe is the oil pump. There is a hole in the crankshaft that exits where the rod is attached. This lubricates the connecting rod. In my situation, the parts are there but the hole is plugged and I am unable to remove the flywheel, so I made an oil dipper to do the job.
Larry
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 04-03-2005, 09:16:45 PM
Larry K Larry K is offline
Registered-III
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Hereford, Arizona USA
Posts: 408
Thanks: 257
Thanked 66 Times in 34 Posts
Default Re: Fairbanks T Questions

The oil pump is described well by Dick Welty. The slinging action brings oil through the crankshaft where it exits underneath the connecting rod. I didn't know this until I received responses from others.

Thanks everyone for your responses.
Larry
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 04-08-2005, 10:58:34 PM
john hamilton
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Fairbanks T Questions

The extra oiler and the disk on the crankshaft are found on Type T Special Electric engines. They have very heavy flywheels to keep a steady engine speed for electricity generation. The 1/4" tube should go from the oiler, thru the side plate, parallel to the crankshaft and drip into the disk he mentions. Centrifugal force carries the oil to the rim and there is an additional tube up to the hole in the web of the crank. The hole in the crank is 19/64" so the smaller tube fits right in.

Regular T's just used that little splasher on the bottom of the shaft to dip into the oil bath.

Thanks to everyone for writing about this engine.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

F o r u m Jump

Similar Threads Chosen at Random
Thread Thread Starter F o r u m Replies Last Post
Questions on Fairbanks Morse Shine Stringer Antique Gas Engine Discussion 10 10-03-2007 02:38:16 AM
Fairbanks Morse 3HP ZC Questions Alan James Antique Gas Engine Discussion 0 05-29-2007 03:55:28 AM
fairbanks za questions earniemanson Antique Gas Engine Discussion 3 10-12-2006 01:05:14 PM
Fairbanks questions Darryl Boyd Antique Engine Archives 0 09-21-2002 05:22:06 PM
More Fairbanks H questions scott Antique Engine Archives 8 01-07-2001 06:41:05 PM


Use "Ctrl" mouse wheel to change screen size.
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:54:46 PM.

Smokstak and Enginads site search!


All use is subject to our TERMS OF SERVICE
SMOKSTAK® is a Registered Trade Mark - A Community of Antique Engine Enthusiasts
Copyright © 2000 - 2016 by Harry Matthews P.O. Box 5612 - Sarasota, FL 34277